Jimmy Moore on Ketogenic Dieting, Living Low Carb, & How to Lose 180lbs
Today, we’re joined by Jimmy Moore, the blogger and author behind the Livin’ La Vida Low Carb Blog. Not only is the the author of about half a dozen books on ketogenic dieting… he also has an incredible story.
12 years ago, at 32 years of age, Jimmy weighed in at an alarming 410 pounds, and he knew something had to change.
In this episode, we’re going to learn how he dropped over 50% of his body weight, creating health and happiness in his own life, and inspiring tens of thousands of others to do the same.
I really enjoyed getting into some of the nitty-gritty details and science behind ketogenesis with Jimmy, and we throw out a lot of scientific terms you may or may not be familiar with. All in all, however, the conversation is really easy to follow, and whether you know about “keto” dieting or not, you’re going to learn a ton.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Jimmy Moore’s background, and how he rose over 400lbs
- How Jimmy lost 180lbs in a year – and changed the rest of his life, too
- Jimmy’s journey to becoming one of the first and top health podcasters
- What is The Atkin’s Diet and how does it differ from others?
- What is a “ketogenic” diet and what are “ketones?”
- How is a high-fat diet more effective at making you feel full?
- What does the research show about ketogenic diets – and why is or isn’t it valid?
- Why is the assertion that red meat causes cancer probably false?
- How much ketosis is too much? What is the “sweet spot?”
- How effective are the home ketone tests, and how do they work?
- What are beta-hydroxy butyrate and acetone – and why should you care?
- Why should you test your level of ketosis?
- What does it feel like to be in ketosis?
- How Jimmy fasted for 28 days before our interview(!!!)
- Why should you consider fasting for as long as 5 to 7 days?
- Does Jimmy eat fruit? Why or why not?
- Where does Jimmy get his vitamins and micronutrients? (surprising!)
- Where does Jimmy disagree with the greats like Robb Wolf?
- How should you get started with keto and fasting?
- How is protein “recycled” in the body and how does it benefit us?
- What percent of calories does Jimmy get from fats vs. carbs?
- What would a $500 “keto quick-start kit” look like?
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
- Jimmy’s interview on Robb Wolf’s Paleo Solution Podcast
- Our previous episode with Robb Wolf
- The New Diet Revolution by Dr. Atkins
- Mark Sisson and his blog, Mark’s Daily Apple
- Jimmy’s books: Cholesterol Clarity, Keto Clarity, and The Ketogenic Cookbook
- Our episode with Dr. Joel Fuhrman (not yet released)
- Nutrition Science Initiatives, an organization by Dr. Peter Attia and Gary Taubes
- Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes
- The China Study by T. Colin Campbell
- Keto sticks ketone testing strips
- Precision Extra ketone testing equipment by Abbott
- The Freestyle Neo ketone testing device by Abbott
- Jimmy Moore’s Periscope video on ketone testing
- Ketonix ketone testing monitor
- MCT Oil Powder by Quest Nutrition (I love this stuff)
- Beta-hydroxy butyrate salt supplements, an exogenous source of ketones
- Cordicyeps Mushroom Supplements
- Coconut Oil
- Kerry Gold Butter
- The PaleoFX Conference
- Jimmy’s blog and podcast, Livin’ La Vida Low Carb
Favorite Quotes from Jimmy Moore:
Introduction: Welcome to the Becoming SuperHuman Podcast. Where we interview extraordinary people to bring you the skills and strategies to overcome the impossible. And now here's your host, Jonathan Levi.
Jonathan Levi: This episode is brought to you by The Become a SuperLearner MasterClass. Now, I've been telling you guys about the Masterclass for a few weeks now. So I'm actually just going to take a step back and let a good friend of mine, tell you guys about his opinion on the Masterclass.
Nelson Dellis: I am Nelson Dellis, four-time USA, memory champion, and a huge fan of the SuperLearner MasterClass.
You know, when I started memory techniques years ago, you know, I wish that I had had all the resources that are available on this course. Jonathan does a great job teaching it, and it's a fantastic course and I highly uh, recommend it. It'll take you just as far as I am without as much time that I have to put in. So enjoy it, get into it and, uh, keep your memory active.
Jonathan Levi: To learn more, to sign up for a free trial with no credit card required or to redeem an exclusive discount for podcast listeners only. Please visit jle.vi/learn or visit becomeasuperlearner.com.
Greeting, SuperFriends, and welcome to today's show.
Before we get started, I will. I want to give you guys a shameless bit of social proof, and that is a review that came in from Paul, from the United States of America. He writes. Great podcast for high performers. Jonathan has done an excellent job expanding from his SuperLearner courses to this podcast that expands to all areas of high performance. If you like Tim Ferriss's podcast, this is also a must-listen.
Thank you so much, Paul. It is such an honor to be held in such high regard and to be compared to one of my idols in the podcasting and publishing world. If you want to hear your review readout on the air next week. Leave one, and I will be more than happy to do so transitioning into this week's episode today, we are joined by the blogger and author behind the Livin’ La Vida Low Carb Blog.
Now, he's not only a podcaster. He's also the author of about half a dozen books on ketogenic dieting. And he has an incredible story to share with you guys. 12 years ago, at the age of just 32, he went in at an alarming 410 pounds, and he knew you guys that something just had to change.
And in this episode, we're going to learn. What did change and how that change allowed him to drop over 50% of his body weight and create health and happiness in his own life and inspire tens of thousands of people to do the same? We're going to talk about ketogenic dieting. We're going to talk about fasting. We're going to learn when exactly the last time my guest had a meal, you might be very, very surprised to hear that answer.
And we're going to talk about how you can get started and why you might want to experiment with ketogenic dieting. You're even going to learn what ketogenic dieting is because I've been just saying that term, but you might not know what it is. And in this episode, you will learn. And so I am very, very excited to welcome my new Super Friend. Mr. Jimmy Moore.
Mr. Jimmy Moore, welcome to the show, my friend. I am so excited to have you here today. How are you doing?
Jimmy Moore: What's up, Jonathan?
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. So, Hey, thanks for making the time. I actually heard your interview with Rob Wolf, our mutual friend.
Jimmy Moore: Oh, Rob is the man.
Jonathan Levi: He is the man. He's my hero. So I thought, you know what? We got to connect.
Any friend of Rob's is a friend of mine. Absolutely.
Jimmy Moore: Cool.
Jonathan Levi: So yeah, for those who didn't get a chance to hear that awesome episode, and by the way, it did turn out fantastically, tell us a little bit about who Jimmy Moore is and what you do, what you're all about.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah, it's a funny story because I always grew up the fat kid.
I was always a big boy, pretty much throughout my life. My mom was a single mom, tried to raise us the best she could and what that ended up looking like on the dinner table was crappy garbages as I like to call it now. And I got bigger and bigger and bigger as I got older, pretty predictable, you know, and people say, well, when you become an adult, you should learn how to eat and you should suddenly know how to eat.
How would you know how to eat if all you ever heard and all you ever saw was Twinkies, DingDongs, Coca Cola, Doritos, cereal, all of these things. That's all, you know, then that's the way you're going to eat. And that's the way I ate when I was in my twenties. And I ballooned up to over 400 pounds. By the time I got to the age of 32.
Oh, wow. And so my mother-in-law gave me a diet book for Christmas and December 20, 2003. That changed my life forever. It was Dr. Atkins, The New Diet Revolution. Went on the Atkins diet, lost 180 pounds in 2004.
Jonathan Levi: Wow.
Jimmy Moore: And I was able to change my life in many ways, much more so than even the physical of the weight loss. I changed my career. I started getting all these emails from around the world. People saying, how'd you do it, had to do it. I say, well, you people leave me alone. Right?
So I started a blog in 2005 when nobody really knew what blogs were and definitely not in the health realm. Mark’s Daily Apple wasn't even out. Then Mark Sisson, but Rob Wolf wasn't around blogging yet.
So, so I started that and I called it Livin’ La Vida Low Carb. Yes. I was a Ricky Martin song fan at the time. Unfortunately, Ricky Martin is kind of a dated reference now, so. And then a year later this guy says, Hey if you talk half as good as you write, you should be a podcaster. And of course, in 2006, nobody had a podcast.
Right? So I started talking on this podcast that I did, and it was actually first a compilation of a lot of different contributors, like doing five-minute rants. And I was like, I can run. So did that. And about a month later, the producer came back and said, dude, nobody's paying attention to any part of the show, but you.
We need to get you your own show. I'm like, I don't know how to do this. I have no training in broadcasting. I did a little bit of Christian radio back in the nineties, and that was Michael W. Smith. Now here's Amy Grant. That's about the extent of what I did on Christian radio. And so I was like, well, let's give it a go.
And so we started the Livin’ La Vida Low Carb show in October of 2006. And now it is the longest-running health podcast on the internet. Well, over a thousand episodes and it's kind of what I'm most famous for in the health realm now. And in 2012, a major publisher came to me and say, Hey, you want to start writing books?
I'm like, uh, yeah. So I've written three books with them since 2013 Cholesterol Clarity, Keto Clarity, and The Ketogenic Cookbook. So I guess, uh, in about three minutes, that's who I am.
Jonathan Levi: That's fantastic. First of all. Awesome. I just love your story because it's the classic lean startup. You know, people were emailing me in, in, sometimes we talk about entrepreneurship on the show.
It's not an entrepreneurial show, but we sometimes dabble because of my background. And it's always the same story. It's like so many people were asking me that I just had to, I just had to do something. It never starts out. I had this huge idea for this huge media empire that I was it's like, never liked that.
And I want to point that out to my audience every time. Let me ask this because the whole Atkins thing that was happening when I was a pretty young guy, I wouldn't even call myself a young baby still. I was still trying to get that first kiss when the Atkins diet was out. So fill me in a little bit on that and how that's different.
I know in recent years it kind of people have cast a shadow on it because you know, Atkins died of coronary heart disease, if I'm not mistaken. But fill us in on that, and how that has led to the diet that you now blog about and podcast about.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah, actually Atkins did not die of coronary heart disease.
He died of a slip and fall incident on an icy New York sidewalk. Oh, wow. Okay. He bumped his head so hard that he started building up fluid in his brain and he couldn't survive that. They really tried to, to save him from that. But you bang your head. And I think he was in his, like early to mid-seventies at the time when he had the slip and fall incident, of course, then all the vegans took umbrage to that story and said, Oh no, he died of coronary heart disease.
And so that's kind of the meaning that got put out there that people believed. Unfortunately, it's just not based on what actually happened. I really wish I could have met the man because he changed my life in so many ways. But you asked what the Atkins diet is. So basically what you're doing is keeping your carbohydrates down to a minimal part.
And the purpose of keeping carbs low is to make sure you're not overdoing it on your blood sugar and insulin levels. And then you're eating unlimited amounts of fat and protein to satiety. And that's kind of the basic crux of what an Atkins diet is. Now, I've been talking a lot about ketogenic diets in my work the past few years.
And the major difference between the Atkins diet and the ketogenic diet. And there are some pretty major ones was Dr. Atkins had it dead right, start really low on the carbs. If you're trying to burn ketones and we can talk about what that is here in a minute, but if you're trying to burn ketones as your fuel source, you got to keep carbs low first.
And so he was spot on saying, you know, eat 20 grams to start and then adjust from there. But what he got wrong was. Unlimited amounts of fat and protein. So Jonathan, what happened when people heard unlimited amounts of fat and protein, they're like, well, we know fat is bad, so let's eat chicken, breast, and broccoli, and that's a good low carb meal.
Absolutely. It's a great low-carb meal. It's just not a very good ketogenic meal because it's lacking in fat and too much protein. So the major difference between Atkins and keto is yes, you keep carbs low, but you have to moderate down on the protein and eat a whole lot of fat as the rest of your calories.
And when I say whole lotta, I mean up to your satiety signal, you're not blowing past satiety and stuffing yourself like some Royal Highness, you know? Oh. And then rubbing his belly and Oh, it feels so good. No, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about eating to satiety. So the hunger goes away.
Right. So that's kind of a major difference.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. And you know, I always like to tell people when they say, well, I just don't feel full unless I have carbs. And that's actually really not true.
Jimmy Moore: You'll feel more hungry, eating carbs.
Jonathan Levi: Right. There's so many hormones in the body that tell you, I believe it's six hormones in the body that tell you that you are satiated, right.
And they all really act better to fat and protein, right.
Jimmy Moore: Like real and amazing. Yeah, it does. And, and insulin of course, and leptin all of those key hormones that kind of keep appetite in control fat is where it's at.
Jonathan Levi: Right? Absolutely. Recently I've heard a lot of flyback as any diet becomes popular. Yeah. I think anything that's popular is subject to criticism. And so a lot of people are saying, well, actually, ketogenic might not be this great panacea. It might not be as good for the brain. It might not be as good long-term. And you know, we had Dr. Joel Fermin on the show talking about, yeah.
So tell me about that. I like to introduce a little conflict and stuff like that onto the show.
Jimmy Moore: Tell you about Joel Fermin or?
Jonathan Levi: Well, just tell me your thoughts on what the research shows about long-term ketogenic dieting, I guess would be the question.
Jimmy Moore: Well, the problem is the funders of research. Aren't funding, very long-term ketogenic diet studies, right?
Thankfully there is this group called NuSI Nutrition Science Initiative, Dr. Peter Attia, and Gary Taubes who wrote good calories, bad calories. I have teamed up to do this, basically creating the very data. That the NIH won't pay for. So they're in the midst of that. They've got a $50 million grant from an anonymous donor who said, yeah, we want these studies done.
So they're in the midst of those. I think they're in year number two with most of those trials. So we should be seeing some data coming down the pike pretty quick. And for people that aren't familiar with research two years is a long time. So considered long-term data.
So, the assertions by people like Dr. Joel Ferman, that fat is what's causing insulin resistance and diabetes. I've heard it again and again and again, and it definitely comes from mostly the vegan community. There's just no validity in that. There's no science that supports that. I would love to see what they're looking at because the science that generally is showing that is either observational studies.
Where they're just basically looking at data from other studies and extrapolating from that data. And a lot of times that data is based on surveys of diet recollection from people, right?
Jonathan Levi: So like the China study kind of thing, this huge
Jimmy Moore: Oh, don't get me started on the China stuff.
Jonathan Levi: I thought that'd be a trigger.
Jimmy Moore: But another one that happens is they use like animal study. So like rats, and they're like, Oh, it happened in the rat. So therefore it's going to happen in a human. I don't know about you, but I'm not mighty mouse. So it's not really applicable to me what those kinds of studies that I just described are good for is forming a hypothesis for testing in what's called the gold standard of studies.
And that's the randomized controlled clinical trial. If you do a randomized trial, On humans and two, a good number of study participants. You can't have like six people and, Oh, that's a randomized controlled clinical trial. Okay. Yes, it is. But very, very limited of about a hundred people. You could probably get some pretty decent data on your theory.
So that's kind of my problem with a lot of these assertions. We saw another one that came out last year. Trying to put the relationship between red meat and cancer. Well, I'm sorry, but there's no relationship whatsoever because you can't just tease out. Oh, it was red meat that caused it because number one, red meat could be processed meats.
It could be grass-fed meats. It could be grain-fed meats. They kind of all lump it all together and then they don't pay attention to the rest of their diet. Well, how much crappy garbage are they eating in that red meat diet? And who's to say it's not the carbs. That's causing the cancer and the other metabolic effects.
So nutrition science just frustrates the crap out of me. And I got to tell you that, honestly, that I just feel like there's too much conflicting information. The consumer just doesn't know what to believe.
Jonathan Levi: Right. So earful on, on this ketogenic thing, this is a long-term approach for you. Tell us a little bit about, you know, one of the things that surprised me, I picked up these keto strips. I've been telling people for years, you know, I'm paleo, I kind of lean to the ketogenic side and, you know, I take a little tinkle on one of these strips and I realized, Holy crap, I'm actually, despite the fact that I'm on a very, very low carb diet, I'm actually not in ketosis nearly as much as I think. What's your thinking on that?
I mean, is that a matter of being right lately in ketosis, or is it a matter of just not realizing how much carbs are actually in the vegetables that we're eating?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah, a lot of that can come into play, but I'm going to blow your mind here a little bit because you could be peeing on that stick tinkling on that stick as you called it and it not turn color and yet you could be fully keto-adapted.
Now let me tell you how so the one that's in the urine that you're testing. The name of the test is called keto sticks. You pee on the stick. It turns pink to purple to whatever, and it shows you your level of a CDOT acetate. That's spilling over into the urine. Now a CDOT acetate is a ketone body that spills over in the urine.
And when you first start going ketogenic. You will see that turn a color. In fact, I peed on one this morning just to kind of see where I am with a CDOT acetate. And it was kind of in the, not the very top purple, but the next one down. And so it's pretty decent for showing you when you first start, am I burning ketones or at least at my spilling them over in my urine, but the problem comes into play is, and it's not really a problem, but it's problem when people start letting it mess with their heads. Is after about two to four weeks, some people lose those ketones in the urine. So they start peeing on the stick and they see no change. Oh my gosh, what am I doing wrong? Do I need a lower carbs more? Do I need to moderate my protein more? Do I need to eat more fat?
What am I doing wrong? And so they start questioning what they're doing when they think they're doing something wrong, but they've done something incredibly. Right. And here's what happened. The acetoacetate that's in the urine actually got converted into the usable energy form of ketone body. That's in the blood.
That's known as Beta-hydroxybutyrate, BHB for short. And so it's the BHB that you really want to be testing as kind of the gold standard of where you stand in your ketones. So I'm looking at my monitor right here. It's right in front of me, I keep it by me at all times. It's called Precision Extra. And there's another one out there that for my international or for your international listeners, I'm used to talking to my podcast.
So I love that for your international listeners, we can share them. There you go. All of our international listeners, it's called the Freestyle Neo. So it is the exact same company it's Abbott that does that. And you can get the strips and test your level of Beta-hydroxybutyrate in the blood. I did that this morning and it was like 1.8.
Which if you're between 0.5. And 3.0 on that precision extra monitor, then that's gold. That's nutritional ketosis. That's the sweet spot that you're looking for. I find I feel better when I'm over 1.0, and I really get no added benefit when I'm over like 2.5 or three. So I try to stay in that sweet spot between one and two pretty much constantly if I can. And we can talk about how hard it is for some people, right? But that's the one that's in the blood. The only problem with the Beta-hydroxybutyrate ketone monitors is they're freaking expensive. So the Precision Extra and the Freestyle Neo, you can buy the monitor itself for about 20 bucks, but it's the strips that get you.
And so I actually did a whole Periscope video on how to find them on the cheap. I've found Australia and Canada are the cheapest sources. You can go on eBay and type in Precision Extra or Freestyle Neo ketone strips and find them. I did a whole Periscope video all about how to do that for people. So you can actually Google that, Google my name, and then Google ketone testing strips.
And you should find that Periscope video.
Jonathan Levi: I love it.
Jimmy Moore: The last ketone body is the one that's in the breath and that one's called acetone. And so acetone, isn't an exact correlation to the Beta-hydroxybutyrate in the blood, but it's pretty darn close. And so people that want to, yes, no, they don't want necessarily the precision of exactly 1.3 on their blood ketone. They just want to know, am I burning fat for fuel? Yes or no. There is one monitor on the market right now called Keytonix. Ketonix.com is their website. It's this guy in Sweden who has epilepsy, he's an engineer by trade and he's like, I don't like peeing on sticks.
That's kind of gross and they're not really reliable. And then the pricking, your finger does not sound fun either to get blood for blood ketones. So I want to blow into a monitor that will measure the acetone. So he developed this thing and it turns. Four different colors. And if you're on the top two colors, yellow or red, you are burning fat for fuel.
So, uh, it's a good, yes, no. For those people who are skiddish about blood ketone testing, or just want yes, no.
Jonathan Levi: Right. And I was just about to ask you, you know, why is it important? I know for a cognitive performance, you want to be in that sweet spot where your brain has enough energy and things like that, but you're not burning blood sugar with the brain, but it was literally just going to ask why is it important for people to be in that sweet spot? Not too high. Not too low.
Jimmy Moore: That's a great question. Nobody's ever asked that question. So good job, Jonathan.
Jonathan Levi: Fantastic.
Jimmy Moore: I think it's going to be an individualized thing. I'm certainly extrapolating. That's how I feel when I'm over 1.0, and you know, right around 2.5 to three as, as the high. And again, I don't freak out if it goes a little bit higher than that on occasion.
And it will, when you first start getting keto-adapted, you'll see huge elevations. I saw as high as like 6.7 at one time, but it's not dangerous. You know, people have heard about. You know, ketones being dangerous. We can talk about that here in a second, but the reason it's a sweet spot. Yeah. You feel the effects of it.
The hunger control, the mental enhancement, the mood stabilization. That was a big one for me. Not that I was ever a moody guy, but people that have mood issues and, you know, needing to have their brain calm down for some reason, you know, a lot of people just have brains that disco on overdrive. Ketogenic diet has been such a godsend for so many people that deal with those kinds of things.
And so I think that's the big benefit that I see if I got no other benefits out of a ketogenic diet, but the brain health benefits. That's what I do it for. And there's so many ways to kind of help with that as well. There's MCT oil, medium-chain triglyceride that can easily convert over to ketones that your brain becomes very happy.
There's some of these things called exogenous ketones. I know Rob talked about this quite a bit on his show with the Beta-hydroxybutyrate salt so that's literally putting directly into your bloodstream. Beta-hydroxybutyrate to help give you that elevation, especially for people, you know, doing exercise performance and want to run on.
Fat for fuel using these external exoticness sources of ketones actually helps them do that within the context of their performance. I would love to see like an NFL football player or NBA basketball player, somebody like that, you know, take this before and see how their energy is. It would just be amazing.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. I mean, I do have to admit that I suffered, I don't know anymore because it's been so long and I've kind of grown in strength and metabolic output, but it was real hard. I mean, I did suffer lower strength, lower kind of metabolic output. When I switched. I don't know if it ever rebounded.
Jimmy Moore: How long did you do it?
Jonathan Levi: Well, I'm still on a very low carb diet, and it's just been so long that I don't know what would happen if I switched back. But you know, you don't get that rush of energy. Like when you eat a banana and are ready to pump out 10 sets of squats, it's kind of slow-burning fuel. If you will.
Jimmy Moore: Well, and I wonder at that point, if, for somebody like yourself, having some of these exogenous sources of ketones or getting ketone bodies elevated to a point that's right for you, you know, maybe when you started doing that, you were on the edge of ketosis versus not in ketosis, um, and that you weren't fully keto-adapted.
So were you testing other than pina stick before then?
Jonathan Levi: No, I wasn't. In fact that thing at all, I was just ballparking it.
Jimmy Moore: Yep. So, you know, if you ballpark it, you may miss the park altogether. So I would say get some of these tools. We talked about a moment ago, get to a level between one and two and then try it because I think maybe, and I found this for myself and I talked about this a little bit earlier.
It's extremely hard to just fall into ketosis. You have to really work at it, to get those ketone bodies to a point that you get them elevated for therapeutic reasons. I mean, there's people with epilepsy and cancer and Alzheimer's and all these things that they have to keep their ketones extremely high, like three, four, five, wow.
Extremely high for nutritional ketosis. So what I'm saying, whereas some of us who don't have one of those kinds of diseases, we could stay between one and two and see the kind of results that we're looking for. So I bet if you did that test all over again, Jonathan, and you're already pretty low carb, so it wouldn't take long for you to get keto-adapted.
If you started testing, I would love to see you kind of do that test, you know, when you're definitely 1.0 1.5 in the morning. All right, let's do this now. Let's see how I feel. Cause I'm definitely keto-adapted. I bet your results would change dramatically.
Jonathan Levi: Sure. And I do have to say, I recently got, have you tried these MCT oil powders?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. I've seen them, uh, quest nutrition. I know there's a bunch of different companies that make them now.
Jonathan Levi: It is so convenient. It's so convenient to try protein powder and yeah.
Bingo. And you know, I'm realizing I'm experimenting right now with quarter SEPs mushrooms, but I've also been experimenting with MCTs.
Yeah. I'm realizing I have way more energy. And I mean, the quarter, have their own kind of interesting functions that I'm really experiencing when I'm out of breath and stuff like that. But I'm realizing that I've mixed my variables a little bit and it could well be that I'm getting much better ketosis effect with the MCT oils.
Jimmy Moore: I bet you are.
Jonathan Levi: It's coming together now.
Jimmy Moore: Especially if you're feeling that I think so many people say, well, how do I know if I'm in ketosis, trust me? You will feel it. It is almost undeniable kind of when you get into this a little more and more, I don't even have to test too much to know exactly where I stand in my Beta-hydroxybutyrate levels.
Jonathan Levi: Right. And it explain that to us. I mean, besides the mental clarity, what are you feeling?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah, so it's energy. You really just feel hyped up. So I'm going to blow your audience's mind right now. I am currently in day number 28 of a fast that I have been on. No, and there's only been three days in those 28 days that I have eaten all the rest of the days.
And I'm looking at my calendar now. I've got big red Xs for every day that I fasted and a black X for every day that have not fasted. So 28 days in this, a month that I have gone. Yeah. We're just three days off from fasting and I'm so energetic. Why am I energetic? Because I have ketones that are fueling me.
I mean, that's a little more to the extreme of what we're talking about with ketogenic diets, but the ketogenic diet does the same thing. It's sometimes been called, like, uh, fed fasting basically, uh, is what ketogenic diet does. Right. So some people need to take it to that next level. I'm testing it on myself.
I'm writing another book about that subject, which is why I'm testing it on myself. But that's kind of what you feel. You just kind of feel this sense of euphoria. It's really amazing. I really wish if you could bottle this up into a pill and let people take it. You know, it would be the greatest selling drug in the world.
Forget, uh, Bradley Cooper and limitless. I mean, this is pretty amazing the way it just makes you feel. Now I'm not trying to mislead people and say, Oh, ketogenic guys is the panacea for everything. I don't believe that, but I do believe there's benefits that people just aren't fully experiencing because they never get into that fully keto-adapted state, which can take about two to four weeks for most people to get into.
Jonathan Levi: Right.
Jimmy Moore: So that's why I do it. Plus sometimes people report that their tongue feels like heavier. So that's another sign that you're getting a lot of ketones produced. And I'll notice when I wake up in the morning, sometimes, especially during this fast and my tongue just feels really kind of heavy and not so much dry, but kind of a little like a film or thickness on it. I know that that's the acetone in my breath. That's coming out into my mouth. And so that's another sign that you can look for. You just find that your brain is just functioning at such a high level. Right? I've never felt the clarity, all pun intended of mind since I started doing this.
So it's just amazing.
Jonathan Levi: Incredible. So I do want to talk to you a little bit about fasting because I am myself considering doing a five to seven day fast.
Jimmy Moore: Oh, you're a wimp, five to seven days. I'm just kidding.
Jonathan Levi: Five days, seven days to start, right.
Jimmy Moore: I've done three, five to seven day fast this month.
Jonathan Levi: Incredible. Why out of curiosity.
Jimmy Moore: Why number one, I'm writing a book about it fast and clarity is coming in November 2016. But there's just a lot of compelling evidence for certain people that even when a ketogenic diet is not necessarily bringing blood sugar and insulin levels down well enough to control your weight and control a lot of other key blood health markers.
Fasting is just a good way to reset a lot of the body's natural ways that it works. And I think sometimes we overestimate the, uh, incredible versatility of the human body, or we underestimate it because we feel like, Oh, we have to eat X amount of times a day. And you know, it drives me crazy when I hear all the dieticians and ones.
Oh, you need to eat six to eight small meals a day. And I'm like, how about I eat one big meal? And then fast forward a few days and then eat another big meal, because think about it from a paleolithic standpoint, how did our ancestors eat? They ate when they got a kill, right? And so they got this big kill and they just ate the crap out of that kill for a few days.
And then they didn't have anything for maybe a period of time until the next kill. Right. So it was very natural. Our bodies are programmed very, very naturally to fast for at least a few days at a time. And so I think if people just gave that a try and tried to push themselves to the limit, and we're definitely going to explain how to do it the right way and avoiding the mistakes that a lot of people make when they start fasting in the book.
So definitely stay tuned for that, but I'm doing a lot of my own self-experimentation. That will be a chapter in the book as well, which is why I'm doing this. Day number 28 right now of 31, by the way. Wow. For the month of January, I just wanted to see how it would be and how it would feel. And I'm doing remarkably well.
Let's see. When's the last time I ate one, two, three, four, five, seven days ago is when I ate. So I sound pretty good for somebody that hasn't eaten in seven days.
Jonathan Levi: I'm just blown away. Your energy level is sky-high.
Jimmy Moore: Got to bring it, man.
Jonathan Levi: Incredible. Let me ask this. When you do eat, if you remember the last time you ate, when you do eat, are you eating any fruit at all, or is it just vegan? Meat and fatty? Uh, you know, nuts, avocado seeds, stuff like that?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. So it's keto. Did you say, am I eating any fruit at all? Is that what you asked? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't eat fruit. Fruit is nature's candy. That's what we put in keto clarity because I think it gets a lot of people into trouble. Does that mean everybody listening right now should not ever eat fruit?
No, don't hear me say that, but for me, because of my insulin resistance, because of my past, as a former 400 plus pound guy, I have learned Johnathan, that those foods while that yes, they have some micronutrition in them. They're not doing me as much good as they are doing me harm and by harm. I mean blood sugar levels going higher insulin levels going higher.
My goal at this point in my life, I'm in my mid-forties, I'm going to try to keep my insulin levels as low as they can be so I can try to live as long as I can because I did a lot of damage to my life in the first three-plus decades of my life. And now I'm trying to mitigate that here, you know, as I get older.
Jonathan Levi: So the only carbs you're eating are coming from leafy green vegetables and other kinds of vegetables.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. And maybe some nominal ones from things like avocados and there's a little bit of carbs and eggs. And so, yeah, but I don't obsess about counting every little 0.3 grams of carbs in every little thing, you know, I've done this so long now I just know.
All right. That's about the amount of carbs I can have before a blood sugar reaction happens and even green leafy vegetables in excess. Will cause a blood sugar response in me, you know, cause sometimes dieticians and other health authorities will say, Oh, have unlimited amounts of fruits and vegetables, you know, kind of throw those together like they're the same category of food.
And you really can, if you can tolerate fruit, thank your lucky stars. I had too many Twinkies, Hohos, DingDongs, Doritos, and Coca-Cola growing up for me to now be able to tolerate those as well as I could.
Jonathan Levi: Right. I definitely, you know, and I can tell the difference between different fruits. Like I'll eat a pear or a green Apple. No problem. If I have a banana. Gets a little questionable. If I have one nine grams of sugar, it's crazy. And then I have a mango. I'm just, it feels like I ate a candy bar.
You know, that and people talk about, you know, different compounds in fruit and all the fiber being able to kind of get the insulin shock.
Jimmy Moore: Doesn't want it that much.
Jonathan Levi: He doesn't blend it that much. It's not the same as eating a nice big tomato.
Jimmy Moore: And when you eat keto for a while and definitely keeping your carbs low, you'll find that those things that you thought weren't very sweet before are incredibly sweet. Now. I mean, even like strawberries now, I bought into a strawberry on occasion when I decided to have some fruit, every once in a while, I'll buy it into a strawberry, Johnathan.
And I go, Oh my gosh, this is so nasty. It's sweet is too sweet for me now because I've trained my taste buds. That's just not something that I want anymore.
Jonathan Levi: Sure. So what veg and stuff are you emphasizing to get those micronutrients?
Jimmy Moore: Well, the micronutrients can come from more than just vegetables.
You can actually get those from organ meats. I know a lot of people are kind of freaked out about liver and heart and all these other funky parts as a lot of people that the audits. Yeah. But those are where a lot of the micronutrition, you know, we talked about the big animal kill on the paleolithic days.
They didn't just eat the steaks off of the trunk. They got every bit of that animal. And so they ate everything. And so that's where a lot and brain. Oh, my gosh, eat brain. It's so delicious. It's got a lot of fat in it and it's got so much micronutrition so that's where I would say if you're trying to be ketogenic, that's where a lot of your micronutrition is going to come from, but you can also get it from the green leafy vegetables, the non-starchy vegetables.
I love cauliflower and broccoli and asparagus, although it makes your pee smell, weird. Tomatoes and there's any number of things. And again, find if you have sensitivities to any of that stuff. Because I know some people have problems with nightshades. Uh, zucchini is another great one, cucumbers green leafy vegetables, like kale, is a superfood and a half definitely eat kale, make kale chips.
Jonathan Levi: Oh, I love it. I was just going to say that.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah, kale chips. And then I love spinach. So raw spinach salad is kind of my go-to thing. Of course, you got to throw bacon and cheese and coarse, you know, whatever else that you want on there that tastes yummy.
Jonathan Levi: So mentioning cheese, I was actually going to ask you, you know, we have this mutual friend of ours, Rob Wolf.
Are there any areas where you and he disagree?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. So dairy is a big difference between a lot of people and dairy is even Rob would say this dairy is not sensitivity to everybody.
Jonathan Levi: Sure.
Jimmy Moore: But a good portion of the population deals with some sort of an auto-immune disease condition. My wife has three, lucky her.
But was, she has psoriasis, endometriosis, and Hashimoto's so the thyroid disease. So she has three of those. So she just recently discovered within the past, like half-year that she's very sensitive to dairy impacting her. And it shows up on obviously symptoms from the psoriasis. The back of her head starts itching.
So when I see her scratching the back of her head, I'm like, all right, what dairy did you eat? But she also has a very high blood sugar and insulin response that happens when she eats it too. So, whereas me, I can eat high-fat dairy and definitely quality sources of high-fat dairy and not see any issue at all.
Well, it's real fascinating, kind of the difference between people I would say test it and see how you respond and then go from there.
Jonathan Levi: Right. I've always been concerned, I guess, about the lactose converting more easily or being broken down more easily into blood glucose. Right? Yeah. And so I think the key that you said is high-fat dairy.
Jimmy Moore: High fat, and quality, and pastured organic.
We get it raw here in South Carolina where I live. So you can get raw dairy in nine States in America. I mean, if you can get it that way, it's definitely going to have a whole lot more fat and healthy bugs that would get into your gut and help with gut health. So, yeah, it's all interrelated.
Jonathan Levi: That's fantastic. Jimmy, I want to ask you, where do you recommend people get started? If all this stuff sounds good. All of the mental clarity, the burning fat while you sleep, all that stuff sounds wonderful to me. If people want to ease into it, how do you recommend they get started?
Jimmy Moore: Well, if they're already eating kind of a standard American diet and haven't already cut their carbohydrate intake, which means grains and starches and sugars, I would do that first.
I think that's always going to be your first and foremost. Cut your carbs down. And Jonathan, for a lot of people, just doing that gives them benefits. You know, people say, do you really have to go full-on ketogenic to get the benefits? So no, most people could probably just cut their carbs. And of course, when you cut something, you need to replace it with something.
So when you cut your carbohydrates, replace it with fat. And when I say fat, I mean, saturated fats and monounsaturated fats. So butter, coconut oil, lard, ghee is good if you're dairy sensitive, And then the mono and saturated fats are things like avocados, avocado, oil, olive oil, nuts, and seeds, those kinds of things.
So if you're going to cut your carbs to replace it with fats, that's a huge first step. And then just be mindful that if you eat too much protein, it will turn to sugar in the body. There's this big, long G-word we wrote in my book, Keto Clarity, gluconeogenesis. And so, okay. If you eat too much protein for your body, and it's not as much as people might think, Oh, protein, we need to eat lots of protein.
No, no only you don't need lots of, you need an adequate amount of protein for what your body needs it for. And the dirty little secret that people don't realize is protein is actually recycled in the body.
So you think you need a 150 grams of protein in your body. And so you give it 150 grams, not realizing that 150 grams actually recycles enough to the equivalent of maybe 200, 225 grams.
Jonathan Levi: Wow.
Jimmy Moore: So you've got to be careful with that moderating down the protein. So for me, I'm super duper carb sensitive. So I stay around 25 to 30 grams total per day. That's all I eat, total carbs. And so, so if you're sensitive to carbs like that, you also are going to be pretty darn sensitive to the gluconeogenesis effects of the protein.
So I stay between about 80 to a 100 grams of protein, which translates on the plate to about five-ish ounces of steak or some kind of meat. Yeah. And maybe a couple of eggs and that's it as far as protein for the day?
Jonathan Levi: Well, so you're kind of blowing my mind actually because I mean, you're a tall guy. I imagine you're on about a 3500 calories a day, something like that.
Jimmy Moore: Probably closer to 22 to 2300 is what I stay at. I'm not as active as I would wanted to be.
Jonathan Levi: You've already at about five, five, and a half percent of calories coming from carbohydrates. If I believe is right.
Jimmy Moore: Wow.
Jonathan Levi: Wow. And to give the audience some perspective, the paleo diet that everyone talks about is about 60. I think it's 60, 30, 10, or 60, 20, 20, something like that.
Jimmy Moore: Well, it depends on who you talk to and their version of paleo. I've heard some people go as high as 30, 40% carbs, obviously from starchy vegetables and potatoes and white rice and that kind of thing. But the people that don't eat those you're right. It's going to be about 10 to 20%.
Jonathan Levi: And you're at five and a half.
Jimmy Moore: Um, at about if that.
Jonathan Levi: So fat to complete out the macronutrient kind of pie chart. So that for you is probably around 80%, 80, 85 or
Jimmy Moore: 70 to 80, right. And then the rest of protein. Yeah. And it's generally around 15 ish percent protein. That's the thing that doesn't change a whole lot for a lot of people.
Although some people think, Oh, protein is good and they've not eaten enough fat. So their calorie totals make the percentage go very high with the protein. So that's why you eat more fat. You can make that percentage of protein go down and that helps. So yeah. That's kind of the, that's the magic, although I'm not a big fan, Jonathan macronutrient ratios.
People are like, what's the macronutrients ratios. So I tested this back in 2012 and 2013 for a whole year, went on a ketogenic, pretty hardcore, 85% fat, 12% protein, 3% carbohydrates, just to see what would happen in one year. And so everybody was trying to mimic that exact same macronutrient ratio.
I'm like, no, that's what I'm doing. As a test, you got to kind of tinker a test, which is why we wrote the book Keto Clarity to give people, you know, tools about how to figure out where their macros should be. But it's not a one-size-fits-all.
Jonathan Levi: Absolutely. So I want to ask you one more question before we get to, how people can get in touch.
Jimmy, if you were to build a hundred dollars, a quick-start kit, and I guess we'll start right off the bat by saying 10 or $15 of that a hundred dollars quick-start kit should definitely, it sounds like be Keto Clarity, but what else as they go down the aisle, the grocery store aisle, do you think should go into that $100 quick-start kit?
Jimmy Moore: So are we only shopping in a grocery store or can we shop online shop anywhere?
Jonathan Levi: Let's shop anywhere?
Jimmy Moore: A hundred dollars. Wow. That's not a lot of money. If you made it 500, man.
Jonathan Levi: Let's say a $500 quick start kit for being keto.
Jimmy Moore: Well, and the only reason I say 500 is because these testing strips can be kind of expensive and so a hundred dollars, you're not going to get very far.
Yeah, it definitely gets your, uh, Precision Extra or Freestyle Neo, depending on where you are in the world. Ketone monitor and you have to order that online. You could get that one online from Amazon, just the meter for about, like I said, about $20. So that's 20, and then you can get these ketone testing strips.
I'm looking at them now I paid about a dollar, a piece for these. So get a hundred of those.
Jonathan Levi: And how often are you using those?
Jimmy Moore: When I was testing and during my fasting experiment, I've been testing in the morning when I wake up. So that's kind of like after an overnight fast, of course, I'm. Fasting all the time.
So it's always a fast and then I'm testing again and the evening, because what you'll find is your lowest reading on your ketone will tend to be in the morning. And your highest reading will tend to be in the evening. Just about double what it is in the evening, from what it was in the morning. At least that's the trend that I've noticed testing so many times, and sometimes I've tested every hour on the hour throughout the day, just to kind of see what all's happening throughout the day.
Yes. I'm one of those integrals equals one geek. So I love doing that. Yes, but you don't have to do that. If you wanted to do this on the cheap, you could do it like testing the morning, say on Tuesday and then test in the evening, say on Friday night or Saturday night and do that over a four-week period.
And you'll see kind of the trend. So that's like eight, you know, if you don't have money to spend on these, that's like eight. Points of measurement that would give you your trend. So that's kind of a way to do it on the cheap. It gets you some blood glucose strips as well, and you can get a glucometer. Of course, the Precision Extra and Freestyle Neo is also a glucometer.
You would just need to buy the ketone or the blood sugar strips for that and test where your blood sugar is. Because I think as blood ketones go up. Blood sugar will tend to come down. So, and vice versa when blood sugar goes down and you're not in a hypoglycemic feeling state in your body and you'll know, you know, people freak out when they see sixties and seventies on their blood sugar monitor, but they feel fabulous.
They're not feeling the feelings of hypoglycemia, so that's not hypoglycemia because, within the context of that, you're having higher levels of ketones, those step in the place of where the blood sugar was. So that's why you're not feeling bad because the ketones are fueling your body instead of the blood sugar, God, as far as food goes, definitely the quality meats, grass-fed meats, and pastured pork.
And that kind of thing is always going to be good. You can get if you find yourself a really good farmer, local farmer, or a farmer's market or something that could provide you with some of the awful, get yourself, some liver, get yourself some heart, get yourself some brain. All of these things can be very critical.
And you can get those on the cheap. That's why I'm mentioning them right now. And really even the grass-fed meats, the traditional, you know, muscle meats. They're not as expensive as you might think. So definitely go price around, go find your farmer's market. I believe it's eatwild.com, is a website how to find a local farmer or farmer's market near you.
Jonathan Levi: That's fantastic.
Jimmy Moore: A coconut oil is another good one. Of course, I keep Kerrygold butter on hand pretty much all the time, because you want to cook in something that's healthy and withstands high heat, which butter is a good one. Coconut oil is another great one don't ever cook in avocado oil or olive oil.
Those are not meant to be cooked on and high heat. So. Use those as drizzles for, uh, dressings and things like that. And just, uh, you know, at the end of the day, just find foods that you are comfortable with and enjoy. If it's the same thing every day, who cares, you know, people are always, Oh, you need variety in your diet.
Who says you need variety in your diet. When I was 410 pounds, my variety was, I went to McDonald's every freaking day. I went to Taco Bell every freaking day. I got 16 cans of Coca-Cola in my body, every single day, whole boxes, a little Debbie snack cakes. I was a monolithic crappy cartridge eater back in the day. And now if I'm a monolithic Keto eater, who cares.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. Yeah. It's all relative. Right? All relative. You've got a spinach and kale addiction. It is a relative thing.
Jimmy Moore: That's a good addiction.
Jonathan Levi: Indeed. Jimmy, has been such a pleasure chatting with you today. I want to thank you. And also if people want to learn more and listen to your podcast, check out your website, where can they reach out to you?
Where can they send their feedback on this episode? And where can they listen to some good stuff?
Jimmy Moore: Yeah. So all of my stuff is, uh, at one big hub https://livinlavidalowcarb.com. And that's too much to remember, you can actually Google my name, Jimmy Moore, and I believe the whole first page and a half has all my stuff, my podcast, Livin’ La Vida Low Carb show.
I do a Thursday show just about ketogenic diets called Keto Talk with Jimmy Moore and the doc. Me and this doctor from Arizona, talk about ketogenic diets and answer questions about it. And on Fridays, I do a show called Low Carb Conversations with Jimmy Moore, Jenna, the paleo PA, and friends. And we talk about health headlines from this alternative perspective, have a lot of paleo and low carb people from the community come and to give their opinion.
So I'm busy is what I'm trying to say.
Jonathan Levi: You're a busy guy. It sounds like people won't have a hard time finding you, but just in case we'll link everything up in the show notes for this episode. Mr. Jimmy Moore, it has been such a pleasure. I'm so glad that I heard you on Rob show.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah, I'm glad we connected. And, uh, you're a great interviewer, man. I've done over probably about 1500 interviews just on your side of the microphone and being on the other side on at least another eight or 900 podcasts. You are a great interviewer. So keep it up.
Jonathan Levi: Well, thank you so much. That's a huge compliment. I really appreciate it.
Jimmy Moore: My pleasure.
Jonathan Levi: All right. My friend let's stay in touch and I hope I'll run into you at a conference somewhere somehow.
Jimmy Moore: Yeah, come to the PaleoFX. Come on the low-carb cruise. There's all kinds of places where we can bump into each other.
Jonathan Levi: All right. I will get on that. Take care, my friend. It has been such a pleasure. Have a good day, evening day, have a good day or evening.
Jimmy Moore: I'm going to have a good.
Jonathan Levi: Have a good one.
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