Jonathan Levi: How Entrepreneurship Saved My Life
This week, we have a little bit of a unique episode… This week's guest is… Me!
You see, after lots of feedback from you guys to share more about me, and my thoughts, and my story, I decided to recruit my friend and repeat podcast guest Dr. Anthony Metivier to turn the tables around and interview me on my own show.
Now, in this episode, we cover a LOT of new information, and we unearth a LOT of things that I've never really talked about elsewhere. I share a pretty in-depth and pretty upsetting story of my own struggles with depression and low self esteem, I talk about the various ways that I've grown, changed, and overcome… and I share my thoughts on entrepreneurship, authenticity, and a lot, lot lot more.
Because Anthony and I are such dear friends, the conversation does have a pretty informal tone. And, I have to say that we do jump around a bit from subject to subject. My hope, though, is that this episode will really help you guys get to know me better, and that it will offer you some valuable information and insights that you can apply to your own lives… Because, as you'll hear in the episode, it's really so critically important to me to ensure that my work improves your lives, and furthermore, it's one of my goals to build a more intimate relationship with my audience and fans.
I look forward to hearing your feedback! Let me know on Twitter or via the contact form on this site!
In this episode, we discuss:
- Sooo WHY did Jonathan Levi want to be interviewed on my own podcast?
- What drives Jonathan to combine entrepreneurship and accelerated learning?
- What differentiates Jonathan Levi's successful companies from the ones that failed miserably?
- How did Jonathan Levi start his current company, and how did it sort of happen “by accident?”
- How has Jonathan's traditional education at the world's best schools failed him?
- What challenges is Jonathan currently facing in his rapidly-growing business?
- How does Jonathan Levi structure his days? What is his daily routine?
- Is he living “the entrepreneurial dream?”
- Where is the “line,” and how does Jonathan Levi feel about promotion and promoting himself so heavily?
- What is the role of “deviants” in a society, and how has this influenced Jonathan's behavior?
- What was Jonathan Levi like as a child? At what point did he realize that he didn't fit in?
- A couple painful stories about Jonathan's adolescence, and how they shaped who he is today
- What caused Jonathan's chronic depression, and what was his psychology like at that time?
- A deeply personal exploration of Jonathan's thoughts of suicide and revenge against his bullies
- What brought Jonathan out of his depression at the age of 16 and restored his self esteem?
- What is the role of mentors and mentorship in Jonathan's life?
- What is one of the most powerful things Jonathan's parents did to set him on the path of success?
- What was the flaw in how Jonathan first pulled himself up, and how has he corrected course since?
- A discussion of ego versus true self esteem and confidence
- What was one of Jonathan's biggest lessons in 2015?
- The story of Jonathan's entrepreneurial journey, his many failures, and what he learned from them
- What challenges has Jonathan had to overcome as an entrepreneur and as a leader?
- What does he need to improve on?
- What goals has Jonathan Levi set for himself and his business in 2017?
- Where does Jonathan see himself in 10-15 years?
- A discussion of the market economics of the future economy and democratization of creativity
- What mistakes have cost Jonathan Levi “easily over $100,000?”
- What does “entrepreneurship” mean to Jonathan, and what does an “entrepreneur” do?
- What makes the best entrepreneurs?
- What does Jonathan Levi want the legacy of his work to be?
- What books have changed Jonathan's life? What book does he feel he should write?
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
- WeWork – shared workspace
- JleviSW.com – Jonathan's previous Inc. 5,000 rated company
- Branding You – Jonathan's course with Anthony Metivier
- Jonathan's personal website / profile
- Eminem's Slim Shady EP
- Linda Levine, Jonathan's personal mentor
- Creating a Meaningful Life – Jonathan's course with his mentor, Linda Levine
- Our previous interview with Alex Charfen
- Favorite books:
- The Magnetic Memory Method Podcast by Anthony Metivier
Favorite Quotes from Jonathan Levi:
Introduction: Welcome to the Becoming SuperHuman Podcast. Where we interview extraordinary people to bring you the skills and strategies to overcome the impossible. And now here's your host, Jonathan Levi.
Jonathan Levi: This episode is brought to you by Become A SuperLearner The MasterClass. You guys, if you have ever wanted to learn things faster, to read faster and waste, less time reading, boring textbooks. If you've ever wanted to have near-perfect memory for names, numbers. Anything you want to learn and expand your mind and retain information in a way that you never thought possible?
Well, then the Become A SuperLearner MasterClass is exactly what you've been looking for. It's a 10-week program developed by myself and my mentors alongside some of the world's best memory experts and world record-holding memory champions. It'll take you from zero to super learning hero in just a matter of 10 weeks in about 30 minutes a day or less. Now you can go ahead and sign up a free trial with no credit card required. All you have to do is go to JLE.vi/learn. And if you choose to pick up the full course, you will also get an incredible discount for listeners of this podcast only. So please make sure to check it out and support the show and on to today's episode.
Greeting, SuperFriends, and welcome to this week's episode of the Becoming SuperHuman Podcast. You guys, I have to read this incredible review from Ryo, from Mexico. The title of the review is “So grateful for this, Me Encarta”. Which is Spanish for I love it. The review reads, Thank you, Jonathan. This podcast and your entire work have changed the way I live my life.
I never thought I could reach this level of personal fulfillment and sensation of really becoming superhuman. I sent you a big hooray from Cancun, Mexico Gracias. Ryo, wow, thank you so much for your review. I have to say they completely brighten my day and it fits so well with this podcast episode, as I think you will see.
And let me tell you why exactly that is that's because this week we have a little bit of a unique episode. This week's guest is me. You see guys after lots and lots of requests and feedback to share more about myself and my thoughts and my story. I decided to recruit my personal friend and repeat podcast guest, Dr. Anthony Metivier to interview me on our program.
Now, in this episode, we cover a lot of new information and we unearth a lot of things that I've never talked about before either publicly or otherwise. I share a pretty in-depth and pretty upsetting story of my own struggles with depression and low self-esteem. I talk about the various ways that I've grown and changed and overcome.
And I share my thoughts on entrepreneurship and authenticity and really a lot. A lot, a lot, a lot more because Anthony and I are really such dear friends, the conversation does have a pretty informal tone. And I have to say that we do jump around a bit from subject to subject. But my hope is that this episode will really help you guys get to know me better.
And that it'll offer you guys some valuable information. And insights that you can apply to your own lives because as you're going to hear in the episode, it's really so important to me. It's really one of the things that I want to work on improving is to have more of a relationship with you guys and really to understand what you guys need help with and how I can help you guys with it. As always guys, I'd love to hear your thoughts on Twitter @gosuperhuman or via email firstname.lastname@example.org.
If you guys would like to know more about me or you have some interesting topics that you'd like to hear me speak about, then please, please, please, please just reach out to me. I'll be more than happy to record all kinds of podcasts, episodes like this, where I share everything that I possibly can with you guys. Now, without any further ado, let me present to you.
Anthony Metivier: Jonathan, you asked me to do this interview with you, and I want to start with entrepreneur and eccentric Nuff said. Well, that is a thing that you have on your main website, a logo, a statement, but obviously, there isn't an upset. So I want to begin with, why are you asking me to host this interview question session period with you?
If you both so boldly on your website, that enough is said already?
Jonathan Levi: That is a great question, Anthony, and thanks so much for agreeing to do it anyways. Even if it's not clear why we're doing it. I've realized. A couple of different things about the podcast audience. One of them being that people seem to really want to know more about me.
I think a lot of people who listen in the audience aren't members of my courses, and even if they are, I think I've emphasized over the last two years. Letting the guests shine so much and I've gotten really an overwhelming number of emails saying like, Hey, talk to us about you. It seems you have a lot to say, it seems you have a lot to share.
So for those of you guys out there who did make those requests, well, here it is. And I really appreciate and take it very closely to heart that you guys want to hear what I have to say.
Anthony Metivier: Well, I'm glad to hear that there has been that response, cause I've thought that myself and I would love more solo episodes from you and hearing about your journey and just the things that you're doing as you do them.
So thank you for the opportunity to drill in a little bit here. And I'm certainly curious about a lot of things. One of the things that I'm especially curious about is, you know, what drives you to bring together learning with entrepreneurial-ism. It seems that they are often not taken together and yet you're bringing them together in an interesting way.
So what's the driving force behind that?
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. I guess to get into that question, we have to get into how I came to be in the position that I'm in. And the honest truth is like with every entrepreneurial venture kind of by accident, every entrepreneurial project I've started, every company that I've started, that's been a success I've started as a, hey, this would be a really cool side project.
And conversely, every time that I've said this is going to be a huge business, we're going to make millions, we're going to raise money. All of those ventures have failed. So I think it's really interesting. Maybe it has to do with the way I approach things differently. But back in about end of 2013, I'd finished my MBA and I was trying to build this big startup, you know, raise money, go to Silicon Valley.
I had this big idea for the social good startup and it was going to be a billion-dollar opportunity. And to put it flatly, it was not. And so I found myself in a pretty unhappy place, not sure what I wanted to do, not sure what opportunities were available, knowing that I wanted to change geographies. So I moved to Israel and I said, I was basically going to give myself six months to a year.
I was in no rush. I'd sold a previous business, but I said, you know what, it'd be nice to have something to pay my rent. And I went back to this little kind of nagging idea that had been in my mind that throughout my MBA, people had always asked me about speed reading about memory. They'd seen kind of what I was able to do.
And I kind of casually talked to people about the private tutoring and the lessons and the workshops that I'd done, people seemed really interested. So, you know, I did what any kind of lean entrepreneur would do? I put my feelers out there. I asked people, I got feedback on what was important to people.
What features, what price points, you know, I didn't just dive in blindly. And I think that's what made the course is just success. We translated the materials from Hebrew recorded, added some new stuff that I had discovered. Using the speed reading and accelerated learning techniques that I developed. And we put a course online as a side project, and it took me two years and a lot of broadening from you and the, you know, 25 or 30,000 students we had at the time to say, Hey, wait a minute. This is the opportunity because I'd kept on. Keeping on, I was flying to Kenya. I was flying to Rwanda, was traveling all over Israel, meeting potential entrepreneurs, potential business partners. Just trying to figure out what am I going to do next?
How am I going to have a big impact? How am I going to make the kind of living that I want to make? How am I going to be location independent work on a project that will allow me to stay here in Tel Aviv and in the end, that was it? Finally, I conceded, I said, okay, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it.
And I think you are really instrumental in prodding, along with a few other mentors, and saying, Hey, what about another course? What about publishing a book? What about doing a podcast? And that's, that's how I got here to this process of doing an entrepreneurial venture that is not only requiring so much learning because there's always as, you know, marketing efforts and new media efforts and new challenges, but also is centered around learning.
Anthony Metivier: Well, there's a lot in that and I'm really glad to have been helpful in any way in that and the issue of having mentors and getting help and so forth. It seems to me that, yeah. There's a level of gloss and a level of total confidence and certainty in the branding and so forth. But there's also this thing where you're not necessarily always certain about what the right thing is to do.
And there are decisions that have to be made and it's ongoing. So I wonder. Yeah. How has your education failed to prepare you for where you are in business now? And why do you think that one needs mentors all along the way? And how does that apply to the people who are fans of SuperLearner?
Jonathan Levi: That's a really interesting question.
So I'll start from the kind of education thing. And I will say I had quite possibly the best education that the traditional kind of education system could offer. I went to one of the best public schools in the country. I was very, very fortunate to get admitted to UC Berkeley, which I'm sure was an administrative error.
And, you know, I went to one of the best business schools in the world. So with that said, How has it failed me? Well, I think first and foremost, I don't remember much of anything I learned in my undergraduate degree. And I've talked about that before where, you know, without mnemonic techniques and without setting myself up for space repetition, the way that I do today, a lot of that learning was in one ear and out the other, not to mention things you learn in high school.
I mean, the other day someone mentioned trigonometry to me and I was like, Oh man, I really struggled. And I don't remember any of that stuff. I think. With regards to the higher education, the master's in business. I don't think I had the leadership training and I think even my own failures in leadership failed to really teach me how to properly lead people.
And that's one of those things that you really have to learn by failure, like so many things in life. And then ultimately most of my challenges in the business that I run today are challenges that maybe nobody foresaw a few years ago, right? Like how you really nail Facebook ads and what's the most cutting edge way to do webinars and you know, how do we hire the right people to manage our marketing?
And so a lot of, kind of just new things that I think you constantly have to learn and relearn because there's always new stuff coming out. I mean, Even in copywriting, right? That's something that's been around for a hundred, if not hundreds of years. And yet people are still coming out with really clever ways to improve copy, especially in the digital age.
So I'm constantly, constantly learning and I don't think that's possible without mentors. I rely so heavily on your wisdom and wisdom from guys like John Lee Dumas and wisdom from folks in my mastermind and it really ties down to kind of this brute force learning thing that we talk about in our courses, which is so many people think that they're being distracted or unfocused when they try to learn from 10 different sources. You know, I should focus on the book or I should focus on the course. I have students say that to me a lot. You know, I really just want to focus on the course materials right now. What's the deal with all these YouTube videos you're sharing and all these blog posts you're emailing.
And that's the whole point, right. Is learn from as many sources as you can. And I definitely have had to practice that in my own business.
Anthony Metivier: So given that, how do you structure your days and you know, real honest portrait.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. So for a long while, I had been doing maker manager days. So two days a week, I was only working on creative work.
Shut down all instant messages, shut down all email. I mean, my meeting booking system doesn't allow people to book on any day, but Mondays or Thursdays. And then two days a week was only communicative. So I don't try to do creative work on those days that has kind of fallen by the wayside a little bit, just because right now, basically all my work has been manager.
So I haven't had really the space physical space or mental space to do a lot of maker work. I'm hoping that's going to change very soon. Now that we have the studio all set up. But that's how I've kind of structured and balanced. These two hats that I have to wear in terms of structuring my days, I've recently moved to a, WeWork.
So it kind of a communal workspace for various different reasons. So that's limited my biphasic sleep. I used to take a nap in the middle of the day for a kind of learning rehab. I no longer can do that, unfortunately. And then I kind of typically work your average workday. Maybe a little bit shorter, especially if I'm not out, we work, I'll leave pretty early.
Like I'll finish my day around 3:34. So I'm out, we work, I might jam. And that's one of the reasons that I have chosen to work there is by the time I walk over there, I feel like I should really put in a solid day's work. And I often ended up leaving at 7 or 8 instead.
Anthony Metivier: And so is this the entrepreneurial dream that you're living right now?
Jonathan Levi: I think so. I like to tell people that I run really the perfect business because if I don't want to, I don't have to manage people. I mean, I could keep the business small. There's no investors breathing down my throat. There are very few, if any customer woes or problems, you know, in my previous business, I was shipping physical goods.
A lot of which were made of glass all over the world. And so, a fair percentage of people would receive broken packages would be surprised by what came in the box because, you know, pictures can only show so much would do credit card chargebacks. I think what's so incredible about selling digital goods besides the fact that, you know, information products are helping people in a way that the previous company I had.
Didn't maybe help people, but also it's no fuss, no muss. If someone does a credit card chargeback, I'm not too too upset about it because I haven't lost a $700 product. If someone's unhappy, you know, we try to do everything we can to make sure that they are happy. But if ultimately, there's no way to please them.
It's a very simple refund, no matter of shipping products back and forth across the world, we don't have to hold inventory. You know, we used to keep tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars of inventory on hand, which, you know, if anyone's gone to business school, they know the saying inventory is evil because it's just dead weight on your profit and loss.
Or on your sorry. Um, receivables, accounting, everything like that. So, uh, yeah, I think this is the entrepreneurial dream I'm location independent. I absolutely love that. I get emails almost every day. I would like to get more emails every day from people telling me how my work has touched their lives. You know, and I think also an interesting component is challenge.
I'm challenged in this business in a way that I maybe wasn't in a previous business. So yeah, I would say it's the entrepreneurial dream.
Anthony Metivier: What are you feel about promotion? What's the border between shameless promotion versus shameful promotion. And how do you feel about the whole thing of having to put yourself out there?
And speaking of getting emails every day, you know, what about the emails that aren't so nice?
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. So that's a good question. I would say I actually heard a really interesting quote from someone in my mastermind who posted this basically like lambasted another person in our space. And I won't say who it was, but saying, you know, that he was giving this advice.
He was selling this advice to people and encouraging people, just create quality content, keep creating quality content, and eventually, someone will notice and she basically lambasted him and saying like, no, that's the absolute wrong advice because you have an obligation. If you create something that you think helps people, you have an obligation to get it in front of them.
It's kind of like you and I say in our Branding You course, you know, if you know more about something than 95% of people out there, you have an obligation to become a teacher, whether it means recording videos or it means sharing in your company, that knowledge that you have or whatever it is. And I think that's true.
I think like if you create really good content, you can expect people to find it because there's a ton of good content and a ton of crappy content. What makes the difference is taking the time to learn how to promote it. And so I think, you know, there is shameless promotion. And there was shameful promotion.
And I think shameful promotion uses misdirection and lies and manipulation. Whereas shameless promotion tells a story that's compelling and true. And I mean, ultimately we have to remember, right, that the products we're creating you and I especially are helping people are serving a need. You know, we're not selling.
I would maybe feel different even if I were doing online gaming, right. If we were doing iPhone apps or possibly even comic books, something that maybe made people feel good and feel happy. I might feel a little bit different, but I feel like I have an obligation to get this stuff in people's hands. And also I'm proud of our products and, um, I'm very proud of the results that people get.
So I do think there is a fine line. There is being a pushy salesman. I try to avoid that and we're always running AB tests and sometimes the tests fall on the safe side. And sometimes those tests fall on the not safe side, but one of the few things I do remember from my sociology degree at Berkeley is sociology of deviance.
And it's this idea that people who push boundaries, who sometimes go over boundaries serve a very, very important role in a community, which is they determine where the boundary is and boundaries are always moving. Right. So right now, The boundaries say for smoking marijuana in the street in California, just moved and that wouldn't have moved.
People wouldn't have determined where it was. If someone hadn't pushed that boundary and, you know, gotten arrested for it. And then raise the question, should we change this law? So I do think you have to make those errors. Sometimes you have to push a little bit too far, but the question is, do you keep pushing and keep pushing and keep pushing, or do you self-correct, and does it come from a place of authenticity and trying to figure out, you know where that boundary is.
Anthony Metivier: Interesting. I like this a question of deviance were you a deviant child. And how were you corrected when you were a kid? Tell us a little bit about your childhood.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah, so that's a good one. I wouldn't say that I was a deviant child, but I would say I was definitely an outcast child.
Uh, I struggled a lot. The first kind of memory I have of not fitting in was maybe second grade. And, you know, I was playing handball with a bunch of kids and I was just kind of minding my own business and, you know, kids have kind of, no concept of self-esteem or anything like that. And then at one point, this girl just like, lambasts me.
And she's like, you're so weird. Why are you so weird? And that kind of started up. Not that specifically, but that was the time when really kids started noticing that I was different. And thereby I started noticing that I was different and it would kind of just get worse and worse and worse leading into middle school.
At which point it was very clear to me that I was different and didn't fit in and tended to be the butt of a lot of jokes. And I, I mean, we could go into all kinds of awful stories like classmates creating websites, dedicated to making fun of me. And that's actually how I originally learned about creating websites and HTML is I had to figure out how to try and take down another kid's website that, uh, you know, was basically, making fun of me. And, uh, that was a really motivating way to learn HTML and to learn, uh, kind of how to get around and take down someone's website.
But in any case, uh, you know, things got worse and worse and worse and worse largely because I felt like every kid had something to be proud of. You know, the athletic kids were very proud of their athletic prowess and the super popular kids were very proud of their social standing and the academic kids were proud.
I didn't have any of that. Right. So I didn't have the social skills to build a lot of strong friendships. In fact, I think are around eighth grade. All my friends kind of turned on me and started playing pranks on me. And so I was very much alone. I didn't have the grades. Obviously, I was a very, very troubled student and I didn't really have the athletic.
I mean, I was doing sports, but all my sports were outside of school. So nobody really knew or appreciated that I had any athletic talent. And yeah, I mean, that was really, really hard. I would say from really, it got bad from the age of 12 to about the age of 16 was just a hellish period where I didn't think I'd ever see the end of it.
And when I look back on it now, a lot of that was self-esteem issues driven by. Feeling like I was dumb or feeling, you know, socially dumb, low EQ, low IQ, just not being able to do anything to a level that I was really proud of. And for me, well, I guess I'll let you kind of carry on.
Anthony Metivier: I want to dig into this because I would love to hear a portrait of the era.
Like how does all this connect to what was going on in music? You know, you did some deejaying and like, how might the music have affected your self-esteem in terms of the content and what was going on in movies, what was on TV? What were the distractions that were formative to you becoming who you were in a pros and cons sort of sense?
And if you could remove one influence, what would it have been? And if you could have amplified one, what would it be?
Jonathan Levi: So that's really, really interesting. The, uh, the soundtrack to this depressive period for me was, uh, Eminem, right? Slim Shady EP and just like basically, this album chronicling this horrific hellish period and just like the rejection of society.
And like, I won't go into the specific songs or specific lyrics, but I remember like a lot of really violent lyrics about. You know, what a person could do to the people who'd shamed him, who'd outcast him. And you know, all the things that you wish you could say and do to the world. And that album was written when, uh, Eminem was really at the low of his life.
And I think I really identified with that. I even at one point bleached my hair blonde. Because I so identified with that message of just like screw everybody and everything. And one day I want to make you all so sorry. And that obviously wasn't healthy. So I would have loved to have minimized that influence.
And I think I would've loved to have maximized the influence of, uh, my mentor, who has been in and out of my life since I was four, but has always been a ray of positivity. And I think she sensed that I was in this push everybody away mode and didn't want to jeopardize her credibility in case she'd really need to step in.
And so she didn't push and I think that was smart. But if I could go back and kind of give myself a gentle nudge, I'd say, you know, you should really talk to Linda about this. Because the older I get, the more wisdom I find she has to discover. And she was just one of the most inspiring people that I had access to.
And of course, you know, I would say, hey, talk to your parents. Your parents know so much, but I was in no state of mind to listen to them. And in fact, it was one of the only periods in my life that I actually hid things, you know, suicidal thoughts and secrets from my parents. I think that's what ultimately was like the most painful thing is hiding something from people who I really, uh, have an otherwise perfect relationship with. So.
Anthony Metivier: What was a suicidal thought? Like, you know, a lot of people throw that around, but can you take us into that.
Jonathan Levi: For me, sadly enough, it was like really about revenge, about making people feel, sorry. I think a lot of people identify with suicidal thoughts to kind of end the suffering.
But for me it was like, again, identifying with dislike. I'll make you also, sorry. I was like, Oh man, there'll be so, they'll regret it so much. They'll never be able to forgive themselves. And it's hard to remember now, but I don't think I ever seriously was on the verge, but I toyed with the idea almost every day.
And it's horrible, I mean, thinking back, I, I can't even imagine. It's like, um, it completely foreign to me, these ideas. And I think, you know, life's journey does its thing. And so many different things have changed me, changed the way that I see the world. And even, you know, at age 16, starting a business, finally, having something to be proud of, picking up my grades, starting to learn more effectively.
Eliminated those thoughts. So it really was, you know, although I always had kind of issues around social life and how difficult it was to make friends and how difficult it was to meet young ladies. And there was a lot of issues around that. Once I found something that I could be proud of that could pick my self-esteem up, that I could say, Hey, I found something I'm good at, you know, and for me, that's always been entrepreneurship for me very, very early age.
Then it all turned around.
Anthony Metivier: I want to know what you mean by entrepreneurship because I'm not entirely sure how one can be good at that. So, but before we get to that, You know, a lot of people are going to be listening to this. And I think you need to parse this out a bit, but you know, they're going to say, okay, so you had suicidal depression.
And so on. I had that situation. I didn't have a mentor. So tell us a little bit about Linda and how you had that privilege of even having a mentor to help go through this and yeah. And where that led to cause it has a kind of exciting outcome?
Jonathan Levi: Yeah, well, so I, I do want to say that I think mentors are everywhere and they come in all different shapes and sizes and forms and levels.
I mean, someone can mentor you if you send them one email a month. And you know, I have students who reach out to me. Today, I had a student who reached out to me about some particularly vexing health issues. And you know what, I don't know anything about this condition that he has, but I'm happy to give him support.
And you know, a couple of emails back and forth can be mentorship all the way up to someone like Linda, who, you know, she had been my preschool teacher basically, and my parents kind of decided that she was a great candidate to be my godmother. So in case, something happened to them and somehow I just, I took that to mean that she was going to be involved at every step.
When in fact that's not at all, what, you know, the relationship indicates, it's just a legal kind of formality, but I determined that. Well, Linda needed to sign off on all my report cards. And this was at a very young age, you know, five, six years old. And she needed to come to all my karate tests and tournaments and to her credit.
And, you know, to the credit of my parents who managed to bring them into my life, Linda and David, her husband, they toed the line and they got really involved. And that gives you an opportunity to have other adults who are very wise, who are not my parents. And I think that's an important, important criteria who had a stake and had an interest in my life.
And then I think at certain periods in my life, I drifted away and came back and Linda and David really were, were always there. And so I got very lucky and I think honestly to this day, I thank my parents often that they were so smart. And they had such incredible foresight in choosing these two wonderful people who to this day provide such tremendous value in my life.
Anthony Metivier: It's amazing that you know, you're able to acknowledge that and recognize it. And I wonder for people listening, how can they get themselves in a position where they're acknowledging and recognizing these things? Cause it seems to me that's a core of a lot of people suffering is that they just don't have that insight to just look at the world and say, look at what I've got.
And, you know, you seem to develop that totally early on and have been cultivating it.
Jonathan Levi: Totally what I've realized, Anthony, that like so many problems come from ego. I think the ball started to drop here. When I read Eckhart Tolle, A New Earth. And I started to realize like, Oh my God, you are not your ego.
I remember that sentence, like a shutter through my body when I read it, because up until then like I said, the way that I improve my self-esteem was to do more, have more, be more accomplish more. And that's one way, you know, you want to be proud of who you are and you want to be confident in your abilities and your skills and your intellect, but it's an entirely different thing to let your accomplishments drive your personality, let your ego determine who you are.
And so I think. Where I went wrong often and where a lot of people go wrong is just letting your ego control you. Because the only reason why you wouldn't ask for help is ego, right? Fear, shame, those are all ego-based emotions. And when you just kind of let go and be yourself, And I'm not saying that in like the cliche, I'm saying that in like a real deep down, like, just be who you want to be, man.
Then I find that it's so much easier to ask for help. And if you don't ask for help, you're not going to find mentors. If you walk around and interact in the world in a way that you know, everything or don't care to know the things that you don't know in this egoic way. Then obviously, no one's going to help you, you know, and if you think about our relationship, Anthony, like I come to you as someone I respect and have often kind of born my soul and said like, Oh my God, I'm so overwhelmed.
I just don't know what to do. I'm so frustrated with this copy that I'm writing. You know, and that I would say opens up an opportunity for people who are willing to help. And I, I find that people have so much empathy, but you have to give them the opportunity to exercise it. This plays out on every level.
And one of my biggest lessons in 2015 was just the power of vulnerability that showing vulnerability is one of the most confident things you can do to say like this isn't a really embarrassing thing. You know, for example, I went in on a podcast episode with Alex Charfen and just kind of bore my soul and let 10, 20,000 people know, like just how dissatisfied I am with my romantic life.
And that's such a sensitive thing and so vulnerable, but that allowed Alex to take an opportunity to mentor me. And I think ultimately that level of vulnerability being willing to be that vulnerable is the highest form of confidence that says like, look, I don't care if you judge me for this, this is who I am.
This is where I am. So I think that's a really important point. And it's kind of one of the guiding principles, again, really since 2015, I'll never forget when someone said this to me, the more you try to curate, alter or influence people's perception of you, the worst that perception is going to be. So it's almost better to just bear it all and show all your embarrassing foibles and weaknesses than it is to try and hide them because people know.
Anthony Metivier: Yeah. I think that's a really interesting question actually because I mean, a lot of people are gonna listen to that and they're going to peak up and they're going to think, ah, so I can just be myself. And so now I can use my SuperLearning skills. To, uh, get into business because all I have to do is, you know, not hide the fact that there's all kinds of dirt in my closet and under the roof and all that sort of stuff.
So there almost comes. I'm not even sure, sure. How to exactly enunciate this, but if you've listened to some recent Sam Harris episodes, there was a guy talking about empathy and, you know, the kind of evils of that. And I had spoken with Barbara Oakley recently about the dark side of. Altruism and these kinds of things.
And it kind of brings me back to the shameless promotion versus shameful promotion. And it seems like shame has almost become a marketing technique. And a lot of people are going to look at this and have been looking at this. And they're just kind of like, and, you know, you can think of the recent election and all this sort of stuff.
There's a period where maybe this authenticity can come off as kind of really inauthentic and just as another marketing tactic. Yeah. Are you really taking a risk? Are we really taking risks? Point the finger at you, but rather open a discussion about that because I've been thinking about this a lot, myself, because story is such a huge part of us sharing, getting people interested in the skills and the techniques that we have to learn, and we want them to learn and to join us and so forth.
But it just seems like such a snarled issue and getting more snarled because of how the tools work and the marketing and the ads and tagging and so forth. So I'm just curious if we can link that back and link it to if in any way possible your first, you know, inventory is evil business, wherewith actual physical products, you know, as a registered business, that had some traction.
So I know I'm asking like 15 different things at the same time, but that's where my mind is going. Based on what you said.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. So I'm going to try that, parse that out. I'll start with kind of the previous business and kind of guide me, redirect me if I don't fully answer the question. So I've been really, like I set up entrepreneurship is all that I've known and it's the only thing I've ever been kind of consistently interested in or good at.
And kind of, it's always been there for me. I started my first quote-unquote company when I was four, my friend and I were selling handmade goods door to door. And, you know, we thought both of our parents were entrepreneurs and we just kinda didn't have an example of a salaried employee growing up. So we thought, you know, if you want money to buy stuff, you start a business.
And so this would happen over and over and over again, you know, we would buy beanie babies. We'd have a beanie baby speculation. Business trying to buy and sell collector, you know, plush toys. And then we started a DJ company. As you mentioned before, bought all this equipment and each time learning a different lesson about marketing, about opportunities, about product-market fit, you know, all these entrepreneurial lessons.
None of them really, really, really worked. I mean, I also started a web design business, you know, I took those skills that I learned trying to take down websites, making fun of me. I turned that into a business and was doing websites for my father's clients. And none of them really worked or took off or made more than maybe a thousand bucks until I was 16.
And at that time I started selling luxury car parts online. So found a market opportunity, found that nobody was selling the parts that I wanted. And if they were, you know, you had to call in and that was annoying and no one was doing e-commerce and no one was kind of listing their prices online and just a lot of really kind of low hanging fruit.
And it started very small. You know, a website and two or three products. And slowly we negotiated our way into more and more supplier's books. And, you know, before long we were doing, we, I say we, it was me for long. I was doing $500,000 in sales, you know, with no employees, no overhead running it out of my parents' garage.
And then that's probably the reason I got accepted to Berkeley. But at that time I got accepted to Berkeley and said, okay, I need help running this. And from then on the business, grew to X every year for four years or five years. You know, we started to have growing pains, pretty extensive growing pains, largely caused by my leadership and my inability to learn quickly, scale quickly, adapt quickly to the role, you know, at two and a half million dollar business is very different from a $1 million business, at least in my experience.
And we wanted to get it to a $10 million business. And sell it and we weren't able to do that, but I ran the business for an extra couple of years after graduating. And the last year was just absolute hell. You know, the office culture was really, really bad and we weren't making as much money as we had been and things started to stagnate.
So we sold the business when my partner got admitted to business school and I started a consulting business the very next day. And, uh, yeah. So that's the bit on the business. You asked a little bit about kind of authenticity and, and are we really putting things on the line? I think that's something that I'm learning to do more of, especially in this business and kind of on the, on the very first outset of SuperLearner, for example, I never showed the less attractive stuff, you know, I would shy away from telling people, well, look, you know, you can't sustain this speed for hours and hours and hours.
I would just tell people, yeah, you'll get tired easily. And now I really go into it. And I say like, look, here are the outer limitations. Here are the things that everyone's going to struggle with. Here are the imperfections, you know, the blemishes on this method, and that's been something, you know, as I've become more comfortable with my teaching style, as I have more faith in people's confidence in me and their trust in me that I don't feel scared about sharing that.
And, and the same goes for when I talk about myself, I mean, I used to tell that. That Jay Levi story. Jay Levi was the nickname of the company that I had before. And I used to tell that story very differently. I would cut it off at the, the company grew every year to X, and then it was an INC 5,000 business.
And then we sold it, you know, leave few different details there, which isn't necessarily lying, but it's not exactly the most authentic way to tell the story, you know, to say that. It was very, very successful and we were making great money, but things had started to stagnate. And a lot of that was because of me as CEO.
So I don't know if I answered the full question.
Anthony Metivier: Well, I think it does. And I think it's worth pointing out that, and you sort of mentioned it already, but by during this time you're doing a BA and. You know, expanding this business and dealing with learning all along. And so there's definitely a story to be told there, but I wonder, like what's the thing that you still have as a, maybe a bad habit or an anxiety or a fear or a doubt.
That you haven't gotten past as an entrepreneur that you still need to be tackling as part of your authentic story.
Jonathan Levi: That is a great question. You know, I think in the last year or so, and you know me for this, I think I've overcome my biggest issue, which was leadership. I was a really terrible leader and a terrible manager.
And I think I've gotten better. I don't know because actually, my assistant is going to give me an annual review. Very soon. I asked today to have a full review, you know, nitty-gritty no holds barred, so we'll see. But I think I've gotten a lot better at that at the same time. I do think that there are a few issues.
I need to work on one. I need to be better about sourcing top-level talent, and I need to be less price-sensitive in many aspects of my business. I'm often penny-wise and pound-foolish and want to save a dollar that if spent, could potentially make us a hundred dollars. And I think part of that is because I'm so conservative.
I mean, I'm always conservative. My stock portfolio is conservative. I spend my money in a conservative way. Sometimes that limits me, I think, in my business. And again, I think I could do a better job scaling businesses. That's always been an issue for me is, okay, great. We're doing a million. How do we get to 10 within a year?
Because in reality, especially in this type of business, growing to X is not. That impressive. Right. Growing 10 X is impressive. And you know, there's really no reason why we couldn't do that today. And that's, I think those two issues is knowing how to get there, knowing how to scale, and knowing how to get the right people on board that will be able to help us do that.
And also being willing to spend what it's going to take to do that. You know, if we have to spend. $10,000 a day on ads to do $10 million a year in sales. Like that's worth it. Probably. I'm not actually a hundred percent sure I'd have to do the math, but I would believe that that would be worth it. And yet I have a lot of anxiety and fear around taking that level of a leap.
Anthony Metivier: Now you use the word impressive, impressive to whom?
Jonathan Levi: Hmm. That is a great question. I think impressive just to others in the industry. Although I don't think it actually nodders and you know me, I mean, I remember the first time you told me about your masterclass and your premium training. And my first response was like, Oh, well, I don't need that.
You know, I'm perfectly happy with my income. And eventually, I ended up doing it because you convinced me. And a lot of people convinced me that, you know if you can build a higher quality training, Build it, even if it costs more and also, you know, just to be safe and have all your eggs in your own basket and not rely on anyone.
And you know, what happens if tomorrow Udemy gets acquired or whatever, it doesn't matter. But I think what I have done really, really well over the last four or five years is shying away from benchmarking and comparing myself to others. And I think this is such an important skill in such a huge part of the reason that I actually live in Tel Aviv because here it's not a culture like in Silicon Valley where I'm from, where all that matters is, you know, who are your investors? How much money have you raised? How many employees do you have? And are you in Tech Crunch this week? People don't tend to care that much. And I think because, um, The only person I know doing what I'm doing here in Israel.
It's pretty hard to benchmark myself against others. And if I do, you know, if I do compare and contrast, it's in a healthy way, the way that you and I talk about our businesses and compare our issues and compare our growth month over month, you know, in a friendly way, in a non-competitive way and in a way that I can learn and grow from.
I think that's something that I've done really, especially well, is getting over this egoic driven kind of coming back to what I was saying before I realized that I wanted to build a billion-dollar business or a publicly-traded business because it would really serve my ego. And I don't think I have that anymore.
Now I have a number of people that I'd like to reach, because I think I can because I think it's what I was put on this earth to do. And, you know, I have. Rough outlines of the income that I'd like to make. But to be honest with you, if I don't achieve that, I'm going to be just fine as well.
Anthony Metivier: So one thing that comes up a lot in entrepreneurial training is the idea that no one really cares that much about how much, you know until they know how much you care.
And so how much do you care and why?
Jonathan Levi: Yeah, you know, I think this isn't another interesting area of development for me because the way I got started in this industry was through you to me. And so you have really very little interaction with your students and really, I believe the way that their model is set up.
I mean, you make an average of two to $5 per student. I think that behooves lower quality interaction, and you can say what you want about the messaging tools on YouTube and stuff like that. But I do think that. Historically I've had not that much interaction with my students. And part of that is just the nature of the beast.
I mean, I want to reach a million people, Anthony, I can't have an interaction with each one of those people, even once a year in a personalized way. And you can kind of make pros and cons about doing that. But one of the things that I have realized, and one of my personal development goals for 2017 is to have more personal.
Authentic interactions with students and do that in a way that scales. So one of the things we're doing is we're creating a new package that allows students as part of kind of a special offer. They're going to be able to get a webinar, which is limited to a certain number of people. And they'll get access one time.
There'll be able to join whenever they feel they need the most help when they sign up. And that will allow me to see their faces and it'll allow me to identify with their problems. And offer them help because I've realized that I really need that. And if I go a week without having some kind of interaction, it might be as simple as hosting a Facebook live and having people ask me their questions or share their stories with me.
I realized that I get bummed out. And so I think what I need to be doing is building that more into my business for me, to be honest with you because it makes me feel good. It reminds me why I'm doing it. And of course, because it also benefits my students. So I do think I've been guilty of using the model as an excuse for not caring enough and using technology.
So I do a weekly podcast, right. And it's clear that I care or I wouldn't share personal information and I wouldn't work so hard to get the best guests and I wouldn't put in so much effort, so I care, but maybe haven't cared in it in a way that students can really feel and benefit from as much as I would like.
Anthony Metivier: Right. It's a great answer and an interesting one, cause it's such a huge issue that one faces in the digital training teaching-learning environment is that we really are just one human and we have the potential to teach, forget about a million. We got the potential to teach millions upon millions and that authenticity is so difficult when it is literally impossible to have FaceTime with each and every person. Where do you see yourself, taking this in 10 to 15 years?
Jonathan Levi: That is such a great question. It's something that I think about all the time, because in my life, in my experience, nothing has lasted more than seven years and the average is about five years.
So I ran my luxury car parts business for seven years, almost to the dot when we sold it. And you know, I had this period of about three years of kind of figuring my life out and then that ended. And now I've been doing this for just over three years. I don't see it ending anytime soon, but I think it would be naive to say like, this is it.
This is me. So there might be a pivot. I mean, you and I have been talking about something that I think is interesting, which is empowering other people to do this. And I really don't want to become one of these like selling courses on how to get rich by selling courses kind of people. But I do want to, I think there's a revolution starting. Where, you know, someone in my mastermind, for example, her product is specifically tailored for women of a certain age who have a certain eating disorder and a certain history, and are struggling with a certain issue and want to get to a certain point. It's very, very specific. And I think we're moving into a direction and the internet has allowed us to move in a direction where it's kind of Adam Smith's perfect scenario.
There's a supply for every demand. And that means millions and millions of micro-entrepreneurs. And you're seeing this already with stuff like Kickstarter like once there was one kind of headphones or maybe 10 different kinds of headphones, wired headphones, and today you have hundreds or thousands coming out every day.
It's a democratization of creativity and of participation in the system. And so I think that's going to happen also with information with knowledge. And you're starting to see that with programming courses. I mean, you can take programming courses for building games and for building mobile and building Android and building iPhone.
And there's a hundred thousand different ways that you can learn programming tailored to the exact way that you want to learn. Then you even see that in our industry, I actually had my assistant do a list and there's 30 people teaching, accelerated learning that she found in just two hours search. But each of them caters to a student who learns in a different way or who has appeal to a different personality type.
And so I think it's important to help people and to democratize that process because as you know, and I know it's taken us years to get to where we are and learn about the books and the podcasts. So I think there is an interesting opportunity to continue doing that. I don't see the learning thing going away anytime soon, but, uh, I do often think about what am I going to do next?
Because it's going to be really hard, man, to find something that is so rewarding. That is so easy. I mean, my work isn't hard. It's super fun. You know, I'm not solving these complex programming problems. It's such low barriers to entry. I had to invest nothing to get into this business. Like I said before, it's the perfect business.
So I almost feel like I'm spoiled for other opportunities. I mean, even when I think about going back to doing some angel investing, you know, I've invested in four or five different startups, I think to myself, like, yeah, but that's not as exciting of an opportunity. It's not as fun. It's not as lucrative.
It's not. So I'm really spoiled, you know, and, and even if I were to just buy a bunch of real estates and live off the rent or something like that, that wouldn't be as fulfilling as this is, and I wouldn't be as passionate. So. Short answer. I have no idea. I used to have this whole timeline set out of what I was going to do.
And, you know, I was going to sell this really huge startup for hundreds of millions of dollars. And then I was going to join a VC firm and then I was gonna incubate startups, build my own accelerator. Now I don't have that. Now, I'm just really trying to live in the moment and focus on doing what I'm doing now, as best as I possibly can.
But I do have a little bit of anxiety because I don't know what is ever going to live up to this. And I don't know, do you feel the same?
Anthony Metivier: Well, yeah, you know, it's an interesting issue because. I didn't want to become the guy who teaches how to do what I do, either. You know, and you invited me to do Branding You.
And, uh, you know, I don't want to turn this into me, but just, I think it blends into this because I also then felt, you know what? There is an ethical duty to show people how to do this. And today I was having lunch with Lars who you met my personal trainer, who I wound up having thanks to you because you gave me guidance and mentoring and taking care of some health issues that I was neglecting.
Because of my entrepreneurial journey and putting too much emphasis on this, that, and the other thing, you know, but not my health. And I just, uh, was talking with Lars today. And I said, you know, we are in a position where people are going to have to learn to be entrepreneurs. That's going to be the reality.
So I'm really glad that we wind up doing that together. And it seems to me to be a part of super learning, you have expressed concerns at certain points about brand dilution and things of that nature. So I wonder, are you still worried about that? And as someone listening to this podcast who follows you and is a SuperLearner, how do they factor the, I just want to learn to be good at this and the coming Adam Smith's sort of stuff that you were just talking about, you know, like what's the balance, what's the sweet spot there.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. I think it ultimately comes down to like, do you practice what you preach? Do you preach what you teach? Kind of think in the sense that, like, what I like about our Branding You course is it's literally, I mean half the thing is screencasts of how you and I are actually doing stuff. So there's no BS there it's fully authentic. And it, it provides value in a way. That's not like, Hey, you can get rich doing courses. It's here are some proprietary methods that we've developed for, you know, driving traffic here, connecting this, setting that up, ensuring that you're getting the most out of this.
And I think as long as we continue to do that, and I mean, I saw you replied to my email today about. Different ideas I had for value creation. Haven't had a chance to read the email because, uh, you know, I have my email quota, but I think as long as it's providing unique value, in a way that's, you know, showing people things that would take them, like it took us three years to figure out on their own, then that's definitely an awesome play.
I do think there's a way to do it that builds the brand rather than diluting it. Right. Cause diluting, it would be like, If this far eclipsed our own memory businesses, I'd feel a little bit weird because it's like you make more money teaching people how to make money. But as long as our memory businesses are thriving and healthy, then it's, we're really in line with just basically explaining to other people what works.
And it's like, I don't know about you, but I've spent two. Let's see, I'd say I've spent about $40,000 over the last two years, hiring various consultants, experts, blah, blah, blah, to like help me figure out and get to the point that I'm at. And I've probably lost a hundred thousand dollars in potential sales by not having this setup.
I mean, just the idea of having a mailing list and figuring out a way to safety without upsetting Amazon and Udemy, collect emails in an authentic, non-sleazy way. I mean, if I'd done that a year earlier, easily a hundred thousand dollars. So I think, I don't know, I'd be interested to hear what our audience has to say because obviously thousands of people have bought the Branding You entry-level kind of course, I'd be interested to know how many people out there are interested in a, a really kind of premium masterclass level, either membership site or a premium product that goes into like, You know how Anthony and I are really, uh, having the big impact in this industry and like the next level steps of how do you get to the six figures on your own platform?
Anthony Metivier: Yeah. I'm really interested in hearing that as well, but we're getting to the end of this particular discussion. So I thought what would be fun is to do you know, the closing rapid-fire question thing? I know it's not yeah. Unique to this podcast, but the way that I wanted to do it would be to pretend that your SuperLearner training is not a product, but it's an employee trying to get a job.
And I would ask you as its representative some questions as if you were going to work for me as the potential student. Do you think that would be fun?
Jonathan Levi: Okay. Hit me with that again. You lost me there.
Anthony Metivier: Okay. In other words, SuperLearner is now not a product, but it's an employee that I'm going to hire to turn me into a SuperLearner.
Jonathan Levi: Okay, cool.
Anthony Metivier: And so we're going to treat this like a job interview.
Jonathan Levi: I'm speaking on behalf of SuperLearner Academy.
Anthony Metivier: Exactly.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. Cool.
Anthony Metivier: So I've already like fired myself as the boss in how poorly I framed that question. But in any case, I'm learning how to be an interviewer as we go along. But the first question I would have is why should I hire you to help me improve how I learn?
Jonathan Levi: Yeah. Well, I would say, you know, should I answer in the form of, I'll answer it in the form of, we were one of the only products on the web that combines speed reading and memory, and then goes into a holistic understanding of how learning works, the neuroscience behind it and allows you to apply different things like mnemonic techniques to anything it's not limited to book learning.
It's also acro yoga and piano and Russian and all the different things that I learned. And then learn how to learn and put it into the course. And that's actually a really good segue into the fact that. I think a lot of people, and I know you aren't guilty of this, but a lot of people in the industry are constantly improving their products and then going back and asking for extra money.
And that's something that we have a policy of never doing. We provide lifetime updates. And in fact, if you find something that you're dissatisfied with about the course and you drop us an email, we will add it to our timeline and we will actually, fix it. So, yeah. And I would say the last thing is, what do you have to lose?
We have a 30-day money-back guarantee. So why not?
Anthony Metivier: Well for an entrepreneur you did pretty good because you answered all my other questions. That would be the typical job interview questions. So that's awesome. I guess I got to return to that question that I wanted to ask before, which was what does entrepreneurship mean and what does it mean to be good as an entrepreneur?
Jonathan Levi: Oh yeah, I kind of dodged that question. So entrepreneurship in the kind of classical sense is aggregating resources and creating value out of them in the most basic definition. So what an entrepreneur does is looks at opportunities, market failures. Rising trends and then gathers opportunities creates unique value, whether that means creating software, whether that means creating a supply chain, creating systems, creating products, which is what you and I do that address that needs and create unique value in people's lives.
And I think, I mean, this is a longer topic, but I think what makes the best entrepreneurs is the ability to assess market needs and not influence their own judgment, not anchor their own judgment, not allow cognitive biases to set in and say, yeah, everyone would buy that. But rather, really look at your potential customer at your potential market and design the product exactly to suit their needs, which again is an exercise in swallowing, your ego, swallowing your pride and saying, I don't really know, but I'm willing to ask and willing to go out there and talk to customers rather than thinking I know it all.
And then, of course, you know, an entrepreneur is someone who's incredibly dynamic, but willing to turn up at, you know, the press of a button to try new things, to constantly, uh, accept failure as a learning process and then push through it.
Anthony Metivier: Well, it sounds like you've developed tons and tons of competence, even if you started without so much of it.
And that's amazing to see. And I think that that confidence is very balanced and I've just learned so much from you. And you know, the ego question aside, if I can ask one last question, of course, what do you want the legacy of your work to be not you, but the work that you do?
Jonathan Levi: So this is a really good question. I like to ask people as kind of an icebreaker, you know, Do you know what you were put on this earth to do? And unfortunately, a lot of times the answer is no, do you too, which I usually to reply, I was put on this earth to teach people that there's a different, non-traditional more creative, more exciting, more fulfilling way that they can live their lives.
And today that means super learning. It means overcoming the challenges of being a quote-unquote slow reader, having a quote-unquote lousy memory. But tomorrow it might mean. Finding financial freedom through entrepreneurship or the, it might mean. Figuring out different ways to improve your outlook on life and motivate yourself and be more productive, be more happy.
I'm not opposed to any of those things, but I would hope that my legacy would be to show people that you don't have to live. And this is a kind of a metaphor that I beat to death sometimes. You don't have to live prefix, right? The prefix menu, but you can live ala cart. You can pick and choose the elements of your life and the people in your life and the environments in your life and the components you can pick and choose and assemble and make, or whatever, beautiful mess that you want to make out of your life.
I would hope that's what people would really take away from my body of work.
Anthony Metivier: Awesome. So knowing that you're a speed reader, what's your shortlist of favorite books that have the biggest impact that people should read right away?
Jonathan Levi: Tough question. I've read a lot in the last few years, obviously. And, uh, I have to say some of the best books I've ever read are some of the more recent books I've read, just because I have, you know, one mentor a week who recommends an incredible book to me.
So I would say the first book that really, really taught me that words on a page could change who you are, could change your outcome in life could make you a better human being. Oddly enough, was Dale Carnegie, How To Win Friends And Influence People and kind of given the story I told you can figure out why I was so drawn to that book.
Why another mentor, recommended it to me and why that book has been so important to me that I've read it 13 or 14 times. So that's a big one. Another major pivotal turning point in my life was when I read A New Earth, Eckhart Tolle. On the financial side, I recommend everybody read Rich Dad Poor Dad, and the Four Hour Work Week.
If anyone's looking to be an entrepreneur, I strongly recommend reading The E-Myth Revisited. I know that's one that I've recommended to you, Anthony. And on the kind of, uh, just learning about life and love and relationships. I really liked the book Sex at Dawn and I, uh, I really liked the book Sapiens as well.
That would be the shortlist. If anyone wants more book recommendations, I can happily provide them, but that's a really good starting list I would say.
Anthony Metivier: And what's the book that you haven't written, but that you think you should?
Jonathan Levi: Haven't written? Whew. That is a really, really good question. I probably should.
I don't know. I was going to say, I probably should experiment a little bit with writing fiction, but it just doesn't call out to me. That's a really tough question.
Anthony Metivier: Well, maybe with like it for next time. And then I want to hear more about the romantic stuff, but you already mentioned the interview that people and check out for.
Jonathan Levi: Yeah, absolutely. Our episode with Alex Charfen goes into that one pretty deep.
Anthony Metivier: Nice. Okay. Thanks for the opportunity to drill you on some of these questions. And I hope we can do it again sometime soon.
Jonathan Levi: Thanks brother, an absolute pleasure. And thanks so much for making the time. I really do appreciate it. And I also want to remind everyone to check out, you know, if you guys enjoy Anthony's work, enjoy his interviewing style.
He has an incredible podcast called the Magnetic Memory Method Podcast, and he's had some incredible guests like Tony Busan and some so-so guests like Jonathan Levi on the show. So guys, please do take a moment to check it out, and again, Anthony, thank you so much.
Anthony Metivier: Thank you. Talk to you soon.
All right, SuperFriends! That's it, for this week's episode. We hope you really, really enjoyed it and learn a ton of applicable stuff that can help you go out there and overcome the impossible. If so, please do us a favor and leave us a review on iTunes or Stitcher. Or however, you found this podcast. In addition to that, we're always looking for great guest posts on the blog or awesome guests right here on the podcast.
So if you know somebody or you are somebody, or you have thought of somebody who would be a great fit for the show or for our blog, please reach out to us either on Twitter. Or by email, our email is email@example.com. Thanks so much.
Closing: Thanks for tuning in to the Becoming SuperHuman Podcast. For more great skills and strategies, or for links to any of the resources mentioned in this episode, visit www.becomingasuperhuman.com/podcast.
We'll see you next time.