Greetings, SuperFriends!

Today we are joined by Dr. David Orman, a wellness entrepreneur, expert, educator, coach, and bestselling author commonly known as “Doc Wellness.”

Over the years, David has lectured to Congress, taught at major universities, and treated thousands of patients. He’s also an avid martial artist, practicing no less than 5 individual martial arts.

In this episode, we talk about the ancient tradition of Tao, and how you can use it excel in health, abundance, and life.

We talk about Daoism, martial arts, acupuncture, energies, and how it all fits together. I think this episode is going to pique your interest and curiosity about some of the eastern philosophies, and if so, I encourage you guys to continue learning more and checking out the books and resources we mentioned in the end of the interview.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How did David Orman get to where he is today, and who were his mentors? [0:30]
• What is the story behind the “Doc Wellness” supplement? [04:45]
• What does this anti-aging supplement contain? [06:40]
• What is acupuncture, how does it work, and what did it teach David Orman? [07:30]
• Where did David Orman learn about “energies,” “ch'i,” or “prana?” [09:30]
• How quantum physics explains and informs ancient wisdom [10:30]
• What does medical and scientific research say about acupuncture and energetics? [12:10]
• Why hasn't modern medicine caught on to acupuncture and other eastern traditions? [13:10]
• What is “Tao” or “D'ao” and how does it fit into the bigger picture? [14:20]
• What can the Tao teach us? [16:30]
• How can you apply the Tao to leading a healthier and happier life? [18:25]
• A discussion of the personality types described by the Tao [18:50]
• Where do David's hobbies such as martial arts fit into the mix? [21:20]
• How did David Orman learn so much about so many aspects of Eastern philosophies? [24:40]
• What is Doc Wellness' big hairy audacious goal, or personal mission? [27:05]
• Where can you learn more about Taoism and eastern philosophies? [29:25]
• Where can you learn more about Dr. David Orman? [32:40]
• What is the #1 takeaway Doc Wellness wants you to remember from this episode? [33:45]

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• What the bleep do we know? (Movie)
• A study done on acupuncture using istotopes
• The Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu
• Sistema (Russian martial art)
• Milton Ericsson, the father of modern day hypnosis
• Countdown to Coherence by Hazel Courtney
• Dr. Orman's Wellness School
• The War of Art by Steven Pressfield
• Light and Shade: Conversations with Jimmy Page by Brad Tolinksi
• DocWellnessSupplement.com and DocWellnessWorld.com
• DocWellness on Twitter

Favorite Quotes from David Orman:

Transcript:

Introduction: Welcome to the Becoming SuperHuman Podcast, where we interview extraordinary people to bring you the skills and strategies to overcome the impossible. And now here's your host, Jonathan Levi.

Jonathan Levi: Hey, there SuperFriends, and welcome welcome welcome to this week's show. Before we get started, I want to let you guys know that we now have all of our episodes it's available on YouTube. And what's great about that is you can actually watch them with subtitles and that's something you can't do on any of the podcasting apps.

So if you want to check that out, go ahead and search for us on YouTube, Becoming a SuperHuman, and you will find us and we do hope that you will subscribe both to my personal channel and to the podcast channel, we're putting out new content every single week.                    

 Today speaking of every single week, we are joined by Dr. David Orman, who's a wellness entrepreneur and expert an educator, a coach, a best-selling author. He's commonly known as Doc Wellness. Now over the years, David has lectured at congress, he's taught at major universities and he's of course like most doctors treated thousands and thousands of patients, but he's also an average martial artist and he practices no less than five of them, by the way.

He's an expert in acupuncture and Taoism and all kinds of really, really interesting Eastern philosophy. So in this episode, I wanted to touch a little bit on Taoism because I know we've covered, ireveta in the past, but I didn't really know anything about the ancient Chinese philosophy of Taoism. I didn't know what it was.

I didn't know how to pronounce it as you'll find out in this episode. And I didn't know how you can actually use it to excel in life, both in your health and your abundance. Everything in [00:02:00] between. So we talk about Taoism. We talk about martial arts and what you can use martial arts for as a modern human one who probably isn't getting into fights every day.

At least I hope not. We talk about energies. We talk about how all these different pieces fit together. And of course, like most of our episodes recently, we talk about how our guests approaches learning in a unique way that allows him to learn so much about so many different topics. So I think the epithet episode is definitely going to peak your interest and your curiosity about some of these Eastern philosophies.

Of course, you won't get a full understanding. A lot of this stuff it takes years and years to study, but if it does peak your curiosity, I definitely encourage you to check out the long list of really great resources that David shared with us, where you can learn more and where you can explore that curiosity, which was his big takeaway for the day.

Explore those curiosities. So now, without any further ado, let me present to you, Dr. David. Orman.

David Orman welcome to the show, my friend. How are you doing today? 

David Orman: I am doing extremely well, Jonathan. How about you?

Jonathan Levi: Doing pretty well, just got some good news before we hopped on the call. So I'm, uh, energized, motivated, ready to rock. 

David Orman: Well, congratulations, whatever it may be. Indeed. 

Jonathan Levi: Indeed. Thank you very much.

So David, tell us a little bit about your journey and how exactly it is you got to where you are today. I noticed you have a very kind of interesting bio in my research.

David Orman: So Yeah, I kind of went in a couple of different directions before I found my rhythm. I had initially finished graduate school. It was like 22 years old, 23 years old.

And I was looking to go in the field of sports psychology. But a little bit before then my father had passed away. So that kind of very much threw me for a loop. So it took me a little while to find my legs again. In the meantime, I ended up in the counseling field in both the mental health, as well as drug and alcohol counseling.

And, uh, though I had some really interesting and useful moments, I was the proverbial fish out of water. And I ended up, this was in Pennsylvania and I ended up moving to Virginia. And I kind of searched around a little bit for what would be my next venture. And I had come across a gentleman by the name of Dr.Wu.

Dr. Wu was in Georgetown and he had a series of what was called the Green Cross clinics, which were acupuncture clinics. And it really caught my attention. So I had spent some time with him. I had both talk to him as well as gotten treatments. And it was just an amazing experience. And I decided, well, the last thing I wanted to do was go back to school, but, um, it was, uh, the fork in the road.

So do I go back or do I just flounder about, my passion was calling me, so I decided to pursue it. And I went to San Diego and it was quite a remarkable experience. I had learned an enormous amount of information about not only what was being taught at the school acupuncture, standard medicine, nutrition, herbal medicine, but I befriended a number of people, including one by the name of Dr.Victor Penzer, who had become pretty much a mentor of mine. 

I was about twenty-seven or so, and Dr. Penzer was already in his mid-seventies. I'm 6'1. He was about 5'2, and it was quite a discrepancy, but he was a fascinating gentleman. He was a doctor, a dentist, and a lawyer. A Holocaust survivor and best of friends with people like Albert Einstein.

I want to ask people, you know, people you'd know throughout history. Oh, have you ever read anything about Albert Einstein? Oh yes. Albert, he and I were friends. Wow. It was just an incredible experience. So I was extremely blessed, and extremely fortunate to have befriended him. He took quite a liking to me and passed along as much information as he possibly could.

When I finished my schooling in San Diego, I had a number of opportunities to move where I wanted to go to South Florida. Okay. And a number of opportunities to set up practices in South Florida at existing places. And I looked around and I picked what I thought was the best. And it was in a little place called Pompano beach, which is a Fino South Florida.

It's kind of between Boca and Fort Lauderdale. And the clinic was, it turned out to be the perfect fit because it was a little bit kind of on the downslide. But there was a lot of opportunity to grow. And we, it turned out in about a six month period at one of the busiest, if not the busiest natural medicine [00:07:00] practice there, a weekly radio show TV, the whole nine yards, there was a medical doctor who would take care of, um, standard medical issues along with what's called Chelation Therapy, which was a type of a therapy that would be used for improving circulation.

And I would handle things like acupuncture, hair analysis, nutrition, you know, herbal medicine, et cetera, and things. That was very, very interesting. I've treated thousands of people over several years. And then a number of patients said to me, you know, there was an article that had come out New England Journal of Medicine about anti-aging.

And they said, why don't you create a formula, you know, an herbal formula because right now there's only the injection. It costs too much. Now I'm thinking, you know, I have time for this. So I decided, well, you know, Hey, you've been good to me. I thought I was doing the favor little did I know. And so it took about a year or so to finally complete the formula, do the testing, find an FDA-approved lab. 

Do all the necessary legwork. And I thought, you know, if we sell, uh, 25 bottles of what would be called Doc Wellness supplement, we sold 25 bottles a month. I would be okay with that because there was a health food store in virtually every corner. And we certainly couldn't compete with pricing and it wasn't our thing.

We were into services. Well, 25 a month became 25 a week. Became spreading throughout Florida. And this was at a time. And I remember having this conversation with, uh, Lisa, my wife, you know, I think this internet thing may take off one day. And so we built what might have been the ugliest website on the planet.

If you remember, what was the name of the program? Um, Microsoft FrontPage. Well, we put, you know, yellows and greens and [00:09:00] flashing this, and it sort of looked like a website. We still started expanding. We got this scathing email from a gentleman in Singapore that said, I love your product, but you know, your site looks like a monkey, put it together, which was, uh, we didn't want to hear it, but nevertheless was quite accurate. 

And so we looked at it by that time, we sort of had an idea of how to build and how to do the tech stuff and we redesigned it and then it just took off like a rocket. We ended up in 20-something countries. I closed my practice to just do that.

And we've been doing that now for oh boy, 17, 18 years, somewhere in that neighborhood. 

Jonathan Levi: Wow. So tell us a bit about the formula what's in it. I mean, what anti-aging, that sounds pretty interesting. 

David Orman: Anti-aging is a branch of medicine that it's starting to take off. And I can see looking in the, at the proverbial crystal ball, you know, 25 years down the road, 30 years down the road, I can see people having their, you know, traditional medical doctor, maybe an alternative medical doctor and their anti-aging specialist.

Anti-aging, this particular formula combines herbs with amino acids and other types of, um, uh, specific ingredients that basically helps the pituitary gland release specific hormones, which research has shown helps to improve the immune system, lose weight, build muscle, like a host of other things, and it can essentially either slow down or stop or even reverse the typical signs and symptoms of aging.

Jonathan Levi: Interesting. And your background, you said as acupuncture, I wanted to touch on that a little bit because there might be someone in the audience who doesn't really know about acupuncture. And I want to get into this whole idea of Tao in a moment, but can you fill us in a little bit on, on acupuncture?

What exactly it is, how exactly it works and what it was that you learned from the world of acupuncture that then allowed you to create this anti-aging product.

David Orman: Sure. Well, acupuncture, depending on which texts you read has a history of anywhere from three to 5,000 years and what it does, it utilizes needles that are as thin as a strand of hair typically.

And think of the body as having, how do I say this? Maybe pathways or roadways and each road should be a one-way street. And when the energy is flowing, when the road, when the car so to speak are flowing properly, the person's healthy, but when the energy starts to become blocked, for whatever reason, physical lack of nutrition, lack of exercise, uh, traumas, emotions, et cetera, that energy becomes blocked.

And at that particular point pain occurs. And the needles themselves basically helped to reconnect the energy. Interesting. And when you think of needles, you know, most people get a little phobic when it comes to the needles, the needles themselves, they're a little bit different. When you think of a needle as in, you know, a dental needle, the end of it is beveled.

And its purpose is to cut the skin and inject, you know, particularly liquid like Novacane, but with the acupuncture needle, the end is actually rounded and its purpose is to weave through the skin without causing any type of damage. 

Jonathan Levi: Okay. So I'm actually really interested in this idea of energies. And we've talked about it a few times on this show before, and I'm still trying to find like an end all be all kind of guide to it because I've had some experiences in which I've kind of understood the power of energy and how little it's talked about, I think in modern medicine, where did you go to learn about these energies? I mean, where can a person learn a little bit more? I'm assuming the energy we're talking about is Qi, right? In most Eastern traditions. 

David Orman: It goes by a hundred, one different names that Chinese call it Qi Japanese it's Qi prono in Indian medicine in the West. We basically don't have a name for it other than energy. But if I got to play benevolent dictator for a day, one of the courses that I would insist of high school upward would be quantum physics because quantum physics has done a remarkable job,

of essentially explaining in detail what was known 5,000 years ago. Wow. Instead of using terms like meridians, which are pathways of energy or Qi, they're using terms like, you know, the quantum soup and corks and things like that. 

Jonathan Levi: Yeah. That's really interesting because the first place that I went after this experience was exactly to Stephen Hawking's book and trying to kind of understand it in that framework and realizing like, whoa, I mean, science is now proving that everything is made of energy and that things are moving in this way and not in that way.

And that there's relativity and, and things like that. That's very interesting. So this is essentially what one studies when one gets a doctorate in acupuncture. 

David Orman: Basically. Yes. And if I could back up just a second, you may have come across the movie. I don't remember when it was maybe 10 years ago, eight years ago.

What the Bleep Do We Know?! Not yet. No, I haven't. That would be the one I would strongly recommend. It's called What the Bleep Do We Know. And it basically does a series of, and they did a fascinating job with it. A series of interviews with well-known people, both in terms of the hard sciences, physics and to a lesser degree and things like psychology and they blended it within a story to basically simplify as much as possible, the concept of quantum physics and how our thoughts and how our feelings creates and how it affects our health. And it's highly recommended. 

Jonathan Levi: Interesting. Okay. I'm definitely going to check that out. I want to ask a bit of a tough question before we transition into the Tao thing, which is what research, if any, have people started to do on these ideas of Qi and prono and acupuncture and the, I mean, is the research supporting it or have we still not figured out ways to measure it and show kind of like in a quantifiable way, the effects.

David Orman: It's actually quite a bit of research World Health Organization lists about 200 different diseases and illnesses that are treatable via acupuncture. And probably the most interesting research that was done was a harmless isotope was injected into an acupuncture point in actual measurable point. And then one was injected into what's called a sham point, which is, you know, anywhere on the body that's not an acupuncture point. 

The first one, the acupuncture point, the isotope followed exactly the Meridian. Whereas the sham point just floated in no particular pattern. Wow. That was quite interesting. And there's some of the studies that have been done on it. The images that have been shown from this, that's the part that really attracted me.

Jonathan Levi: Incredible. Why do you think it is that these things haven't taken a larger hold in Western medicine? I mean, is it flow of money and kind of lobbying against it or what's stopping this stuff from being more mainstream?

David Orman: They're playing with fire with this one though. I think it's the usual, you know, why, and you can ask the same questions about a million, one different things, whether it be, you know, energy or, you know, environmental things, it boils down to the typical.

I think that about somewhere around the late eighties, early nineties, things really changed in terms of alternative medicine in general. And many, many people started looking into this as a viable option. And I think that it has grown consistently. No, there has been opposition to it. And there has been, you know, the diehards who I don't want to hear anything about it and that's okay.

Everybody has a choice. But many more people are being exposed to it. And the disillusionment with their traditional care has kind of driven them to self-educate. And these are some of the things that they come across. 

Jonathan Levi: Right. So I want to transition David into Tao a little bit to piece it together for me.

Where does Tao fit in and what is Tao? I guess let's start with that.

David Orman: Even though it's spelled TAO it's actually pronounced DAO with the D and sometimes you actually spell it with a D and the Tao or Taoism is the philosophy. The translation essentially is the way, which is kind of an unusual translation, because the way implies that there is a specific one specific way, one specific method or pattern.

When in fact it's not really the way as much as your way and my way. And when we follow our particular uh, hunches or when we follow our fascination, good things happen or great things happen or spectacular things happen. But when we get a, you know, Joe Smith's 10 steps to success and we follow it according to, you know, you first you do this and secondly, you do this.

And sometimes it works. Sometimes it blows up in our face. Sometimes it's a disaster because it's Joe's way. It's not your way. It's not my way. And basically that's what Taoism has taught that there are, you know, whatever, 7 billion people, and there's basically 7 billion different ways of going about things.

Some of them may be almost identical. Some of them may be polar opposites, and most are kind of in between the proverbial bell curve here. That's essentially what it means. The Taoists were a group of people who essentially, I don't know if the word discovered or created would fit in here, but the whole world of Oriental Medicine, basically herbal therapies, acupuncture, what's called Qigong, which is a, I guess what we would call hands-on healing.

Tai Chi. And that whole, um, yeah, I think it started getting an even stranger things like feng shui, which is the art of placement and some of the other areas. 

Jonathan Levi: So what does Tao teach us? I mean, you said it is the way, the way of living life of diet of exercise. Is it kind of similar to iraveta or how does that work?

David Orman: The answer to your question is yes, there is a dowel of everything. The Tao is and basically, if you describe it, one of the famous book is called Dao De Jing and it's written by a gentleman named Lao-Tzu right. Attributed to him. And one of the statements is the Tao that couldn't be described is not the Tao.

It's basically it is anything and everything and nothing. Wow. Okay. And it's one of those that makes your head scratch. Like, what is this? This a little too, but if you make it yeah, personal. If you make it practical, then it really begins to make sense to you. So for example, the Tao of Jonathan's health.

Now, what would something like that look like, I'm looking at your image here and you look kind of long and lean. That would be an example of somebody who would ascribe to what's called a metal element. So people who are, um, metal elements, they usually feature the lungs. So is it, it's not surprising, you're an interviewer.

It's not surprising you're intelligent. Why metal intelligent? The classic example of a metal person who reminds me of Gandalf from Lord of the Rings, very tall and very, you know, when they speak, they speak, you know, they have a voice that catches people. They're often singers, they're often professors.

They have something to say. That is there Tao, that is there a way, that is their gift to the world. That is something that it's not, that they really want to do it. You have to do it. Interesting. That would be an example of it.

Jonathan Levi. Okay. Cool. So tell me a little bit about the book you wrote. I mean, you wrote a book about using Tao to lead healthier and happier lives.

So how can people in the audience start to understand what the Tao can teach them about leading a happier and healthier life? 

David Orman: The first thing is that, like I said, even though we all have our own unique fingerprints and we're going to go about things a different way each time. But there's so much overlap and most people can ascribe to one of five,

what's called five elements. And they are wood, fire, metal, water, and earth. And generally, let me use an example as an earth person and earth person has a tendency to be either very muscular or very, they tend toward obesity. When they talk, they have a tendency to sing more than they talk. I'm exaggerating of course. They lean towards sweets. 

They lean toward overwork, over-worry overstressed. They are very social people. So this type of person, you would not want to encourage them for example, to go into, you know, website building why your cerebral, it's very isolated. They would probably not do well. Oh, I don't know.

Ultra marathon running. Why? Because it's miles and miles and hours and hours by themselves. So you can get some ideas by how a person is built by how they talk, people who are of the wood element. They're very loud. And when they shake your hand, you know, you have to make sure all five fingers are still there.

They let you know that here I am and welcome world. They want to leave their footprint. So maybe that's an individual that would excel in some type of leadership position. You would not want to hire that person to do, you know, labor-type stuff. Because they would always say, well, here's a better way of doing it, or here's what I want to do.

That's the person who needs to be in charge. So encouraging them, you know, hey, have you ever thought of going into your own business? Have you ever thought of hosting your own podcast? It's along those lines. 

Jonathan Levi: Interesting. Okay. So it's a matter of understanding the kind of type that you fall into and then being true to that type.

David Orman: Yeah. Like I said, these are guidelines they're by no means absolute. Cause there are some people, like I said, there's some people who are the wood element that, you know, I don't want to pet a company or I don't want to, you know, start a school or anything along those because I don't have that.

But for the most part, you know, you got a hundred people and they are considered wood element, you know, 97 of them are going to have that tendency to want to be in charge of something. 

Jonathan Levi: Okay. Got it. So that's very interesting. Now I noticed you have really quite a long history with martial arts and you've learned five different martial arts yourself.

Where does all of that fit in or is that kind of a separate passion and hobby of yours? 

David Orman: Well, that's the interesting thing with Taoism. There is no such thing as separate. There is that the energy that flows through you, flows through me, flows through a chair, flows through the computer, flows through a sword. And it's how you want to express it.

And I found that I am a very active person. Uh, lots of energy. Energy has never been an issue with me. Calming down sometimes have, but energy has not. So this was the way I wanted to express it. And I developed, right? I was again, very fortunate to bump into people who were willing to teach. I don't believe today's martial arts are useful in terms of self-defense or at least I don't think it's in terms of the major purpose of self-defense the reason being everybody has a camera.

So even if you are attacked and you quote, unquote, win. Now, do you really win, right? Will that be a problem? And then, you know, you have your guns and everything else that kind of nullify hand-to-hand combat for the most part. And I'm not talking about police officers or anybody along those lines. So if it's not for self-defense then what is it really for in 2016. 

Well, the answer is self-development. So how can I use my movement to get closer to my inner self? How can I use it to help influence other people, to build their help them discover their confidence or help them discover their creativity? And one of the arts that I teach is called Systema and that's a Russian martial art.

It's a very physical art. And we take a lot of punches, a lot of strikes to the gut and to the chest. And if somebody is watching it, they go that's crazy. Why would anybody stand there and let themselves be hit? Well, the answer is, today, it builds courage. And courage is extremely valuable. I mean, when don't you need courage, but get tying what we talked about maybe 10 minutes ago, courage, that particular emotion correlates with the kidney energy, the kidney energy correlates with the skeletal system, with hearing, with memory,

with hair, with teeth. It also correlates with, um, you know, income. So if a person is, for example, they have an unhealthy relationship with money. They have a lot of fear about losing their job. They have a lot of fear about not having enough money. One of the things that martial arts can do is increase or help them find their courage. By finding their courage in one area, it has to pervade the whole area.

So you can say by taking punches to the stomach, it helps the skeletal system by taking punches to the chest, it can help with, you know, increasing the flow of money. 

Jonathan Levi: Okay. I, so it all kind of fits together is what you're saying.

David Orman: Yeah. It's a simple phrase and we use that a lot. It all kind of fits together, but it's such a powerful phrase.

Jonathan Levi: Yes. So tell me how, I mean, because it is, it's a little bit hard to get a grasp on it. What exactly the Tao has taught and you know, how it all fits together. So I want to ask a little bit about your learning process. I mean, this doesn't sound like something. I mean, obviously martial arts, not, but also acupuncture Taoism, and stuff like that.

These don't sound to me like skills that you would sit down and read a book about or many books and suddenly know about them. So how have you gone about learning these various things and learning so much about so many different aspects of Eastern philosophies? 

David Orman: I think for me, at least the best way to learn anything is experiencing it.

I think you can read words in a book, that you think that the author wants to convey. And that certainly can be helpful. I think the next level above that is how you understand it. Right? And then next level above that is how you apply it or how you interact with the information, how that bridge, it serves as a bridge between you and other people.

And like I said, I've done that through, you know, working with patients. I've done that through martial arts. I've done that through running a marathon for that matter. It just connecting with people, makes the difference. That's when you're going to learn about everything pretty much. And I also, I am a horrible marathoner.

It takes me forever and a day to finish. I will finish, but I'm kind of at the end, the last man on the totem pole, so to speak. But I've learned so much. I've seen the ultimate kindness when we're here in Central Florida. And sometimes it gets unbearably hot, even in January. I mean, there'll be 90 degrees once in a while, there was one particular marathon where it was 90 or at least the feel like temperature was 90, 92 degrees and they were getting low on water. And the acts of kindness that I saw people sharing with other people who they don't know, they will probably never see in their entire life. It was remarkable and it had a huge impact on me. And then I get to share that information through writing or through teaching or through sharing stories in martial arts and people hear it.

And then they start to think, Oh, even in difficult situations, maybe I can share. And to me, that's where the whole value comes into play, in terms of burning.

Jonathan Levi: So let me ask you this. What would you say is your calling your kind of big, hairy, audacious goal or mission? 

David Orman: Oh, I don't know if I have just one.

I would say if I was to answer that, I would say teaching would be certainly one of them. And then collecting experiences would be the other one. 

Jonathan Levi: Okay, those are solid missions. I like those missions.

David Orman: On video, I had seen called America's heart and soul. And this gentleman was in the process of climbing all of the seven highest peaks in the world.

Mount Everest was the last one and they showed him climbing up the side of this ice wall. And it was remarkable, by the way, he's blind. And they interviewed him and he said, you know, some people collect baseball cards. I collect experiences. That's me, that's it. That's exactly one of the things I'm doing in my life.

And it was beautifully stated. I love that.

Jonathan Levi: I also, I definitely connect and collect experiences. I like to collect stories as well. But I think there's so much power teaching power and inspirational power in the stories that we share with other people. And I'm always throwing in anecdotes on the podcast about, well, there was this one experience and here's the story.

I think there's some value. And also how you tell the experiences. 

David Orman: Yeah. One of the most famous psychiatrists was named Milton Erickson. He was considered the father of modern-day hypnosis. And when people think of hypnosis, they think, you know, stare at the watch, is it swings back and forth or something like that.

But what Dr. Erickson did was he used to tell metaphors and they were always teaching metaphors and people would, you know, they weren't sure what was happening, but they knew something was happening in the process of listening to him. Their subconscious that would change. And the messages would sink in or the blockages would be cleared or something would come to the surface where they can talk about or where they can look at.

And yeah, I think metaphors are some of the most powerful things in terms of teaching tools. 

Jonathan Levi: Yeah, absolutely. David, I want to ask you which books have you given most as gifts most specifically about these topics. I guess what I'm trying to get at is where can people start to learn some more about Taoism, acupuncture, things like that.

David Orman: Well, in terms of Taoism, certainly the book is called the Dao Te Jing and T A O next word, T E next word, Ching, C H I N G. And that's considered the book. And there are multitude of authors who have translated it. There was a, I don't remember his first name, but the last name was Watkins. And I thought he did a remarkable job.

And also the image on the right-hand side of the page will be the written material. And the left-hand side there'll be a black-and-white image. And sometimes by just looking at the image, you can get what the words mean to even a deeper degree. So that's where I would start. Just in terms of maybe improving or understanding how energy can work.

And some of the unique studies that have been done there is a, um, her name is Hazel Courteney, C O U R T E N E Y. She wrote a book called Countdown to Coherence. Countdown to Coherence. And I thought that was one of the most creative books that I had come across in terms of kind of blending the practical, almost a spiritual flavor along with, uh, the science of things.

Very interesting. And then I'm always looking for creative. I have an online school called Dr. Orman's Wellness school, and I often talk about releasing the dragon of creativity. And basically is you have something to say, you have something to sing, you have something to write, you have something to draw.

How do you get it out? Two books I would recommend. One is my opinion, the best it's called The War of Art. I've heard about this one. Yeah, it gets recommended a lot. It's gee, I don't even think it's 200 pages, maybe about 175 pages. Steven Pressfield wrote it. Very simple to read. It's one of those books where you can thumb through and, you know, you get to a page, I don't know, 72 and you read it.

And that seems to be like the thing you need to hear for the day. Hm. And then I really like it. There's one that's called Light and Shade and it's, uh, uh, conversations with, uh, Led Zeppelin guitarist, Jimmy Page. And I'm not a musician. My wife is a musician. I can't sing a note, play a note, or anything, but I'm fascinated with him the way he went about creating things and some of his stories about creating different songs or how he started to implement the violin bow playing on the guitar or the Ferrum in, and the enormous success that they had.

Very interesting stories. And if you were erased the word music and insert the words, and whenever you want podcasts, martial arts, lectures, it fits. So those would be the ones that I would point to.

Jonathan Levi: Cool. And we'll put all of those books in the show notes at the blog post the becomingasuperhuman.com for people who want to check them out and obviously support the show through our links.

Which on that note, uh, David, where can people learn more about you get in touch with you and, uh, check out all the different stuff you're doing from the online course you mentioned to the NDA aging supplement and everything in between. 

David Orman: Sure. One of our main websites is Doc Wellness Supplement, and the other one is docwellnessworld.com.

So docwellnessworld.com you can learn about the supplement, learn about the online school. I do private one-on-one consultations, lectures, and the whole nine yards. Uh, you can also get me on Twitter at twitter.com. Doc Wellness is the term that I use. And then of course on Facebook. 

Jonathan Levi: Awesome. I'm going to hop on and check out some of this Doc Wellness supplement.

I really like the description you got here. Tired of feeling tired lately. I don't know. I've been feeling a little tired of the last few days, so I'm going to check that out. Dr. David Orman. I want to ask you the last question we typically ask. If people take away just one message from today and they carry it with them for the rest of their lives, what would you hope for that to be?

David Orman: Uh, follow your fascination and lead a fearless life. A life it's the old adage of it. It's short. It goes by quickly following your fascination, wherever you're drawn, either good, very good or great will happen. 

Jonathan Levi: I love it. Fantastic note to end on Dr. David Orman, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you today, and I want to thank you so much for making the time.

David Orman: Oh, same here. I appreciate it. This was very enjoyable, Jonathan. 

Jonathan Levi: Thank you. All right my friend, take care and do keep in touch. 

David Orman: Okay. 

Jonathan Levi: All right Superfriends, that's it for this week's episode, we hope you really, really enjoyed it and learn a ton of applicable stuff that can help you go out there and overcome the impossible.

If so, please do us a favor and leave us a review on iTunes or Stitcher, or however you found this podcast. In addition to that, we are. Always looking for great guest posts on the blog or awesome guests right here on the podcast. So if you know somebody or you are somebody, or you have thought of somebody who would be a great fit for the show or for our blog, please reach out to us either on Twitter or by email our email is info@becomingasuperhuman.com. Thanks so much. 

Closing: Thanks for tuning in to the Becoming Superhuman Podcast. For more great skills and strategies, or for links to any of the resources mentioned in this episode, visit www.becomingasuperhuman.com/podcast. We'll see you next time.